Trying Hard To Get This Heavy Tone

[GuitarGuy316]

Ive had the Axe-FX 3 for about 3 weeks so far and at first I was pretty disappointed with every preset I heard. I watched a lot of videos on youtube of people demoing the stock rectifier tones, Friedman HBE, and 5150 and it sounded amazing but when I tried it I was very disappointed until I started tweaking the eq and swapping out IR's, and using drives in front. I started with a 5150 block letter and eventually got it to a point where I was pleased. I finally got it sounding better than the profile I was using on the Kemper and also found a lot of luck with Own Hammer IR's. Then I tried downloaded some of the gift of tone presets and was absolutely surprised how much I did not like them.

I tried the Deven Townsend, Jason Richardson, and Phil Collen preset and didnt understand how it sounded so badass on youtube but sounded awful on my setup. Its like the preset had very little gain to it. Im running from output 1 left and right into a universal audio Apollo x4 and have KRK monitors for reference. I then tried a preset from this youtube video here, which is a tone I am trying to achieve and its like the same thing with the Deven Townsend preset, I just don't have the saturation on my end and the videos sound amazing but complete opposite on my end. With my 5150 preset I am using a drive pedal and gain at about 6 and input trim at 1 and the saturation is decent but I haven't been able to really get any of the sounds I am hearing that led me to buying this. I do have great luck running it through my vht power amp and 4x12 and also creating tones using the matchless preset with my strat, but the super saturated type tones, I just don't know the trick and apparently its not supposed to be hard.

All my levels are set correct, power amp modeling is active and using pretty good IR's and a-lot of them. Im only tweaking the tone, ideal, and speaker options for the most part. Any help or recommendation on some presets would be appreciated

I’ll upload a preset this weekend that I put together with a 5150 Block Letter using Parkway Drive’s settings combined with 4-5 things I pulled from the various Gift of Tone packs. I used Mikko’s IR, Petrucci compressor, etc. and it’s pretty good for me using Fishman Fluence Modern pickups.

 

[Shask]

I'm pretty sure stock INPUT GAIN is 1, that's where mine is and I've never messed with it. So that may be why you need to use so much gain in your presets.

If I remember right, the amp input gain on 1 is like using the low input on an actual amp, and 1.5 on the input gain is like using the high input on the actual amp. I tend to put the input gain on most of my sounds at about 1.3 or so.

Also, the global input gain should be about 50%.

 

[ApocalypticKatana]

If I remember right, the amp input gain on 1 is like using the low input on an actual amp, and 1.5 on the input gain is like using the high input on the actual amp. I tend to put the input gain on most of my sounds at about 1.3 or so.

Also, the global input gain should be about 50%.

Correction

All the models assume the "Hi" input on the amp was used if there are multiple inputs. If the amp has a Lo input this is typically half the sensitivity so you would set Input Trim to 0.5 to replicate. The beauty of Input Trim is you can set it to any value you like rather than being stuck with a switch with only two values.

 

[ApocalypticKatana]

The amp block in the Axe-Fx has a variety of gain controls that change depending upon the amp model selected. These controls are:
Input Drive
Input Trim
Overdrive
Master Volume

These various controls are located at fixed points in the virtual amplifier circuit as follows:

Input Drive:
This is the modeled amp's gain, drive, volume, etc. control. It adjusts the attenuation at the input to the amplifier gain stages after the input buffer. On a Marshall Plexi, for example it is the "Loudness" control. On a typical Fender amp it is the "Volume" control. On many high-gain amps it is called either "Gain" or "Drive".

On a real amp this is implemented using a variable resistor called a potentiometer. Many amps include a "bright cap" on the drive control which is a small value capacitor placed across the terminals of the pot that bleeds treble frequencies through as the gain is reduced. Sometimes this bright cap is switchable via a switch on the amp. Sometimes it is fixed.

Input Trim:
The Input Trim control allows you to adjust the input attenuation without changing the frequency response. If you turn down the Input Drive and the model has a bright cap the amp will get brighter. Now you may like the brighter tone but wish there were more gain. Input Trim allows you to increase the gain without changing the tone. Conversely you may like the darker tone with Input Drive set high but wish there were less gain. In this case you can lower Input Trim.

Most real amps do not possess an Input Trim control. Instead they usually have a switch or two input jacks that select between a high-gain and low-gain input. Almost invariably the difference between these two jacks is 6 dB. All the Axe-Fx amps are modeled using the high-gain input or switch position (if any). To simulate the low-gain input set the Input Trim to 0.5 which is 6 dB less.

Overdrive:
Some amps possess an attenuation control between the later gain stages. Examples of the are the Mesa/Boogie Mark series, Dumble ODS and others. This control allows the user to vary the gain staging. The Input Drive can be turned up and the Overdrive turned down so that the earlier stages distort more and the later stages distort less and vice-versa.

Master Volume:
The Master Volume (MV) controls how much signal level is sent to the power amp. Many vintage amps have no MV control and the power amp runs "wide open". Modern amps often get their distortion from the preamp and the Master Volume then allows the user to control the volume of the amp.

The Master Volume in the Axe-Fx II, as well as on real amps, is probably the singular most powerful control in the amp block. As the Master Volume is increased the virtual power amp begins to distort. The virtual power amp also begins to sag and all sorts of beautiful magic occurs. The tone becomes more focused, the dynamic response changes, the note attack is accentuated, etc.

The key to crafting the ultimate tone involves understanding these various controls and learning how to balance them.

 

[ScotHessler]

I don't think OP is talking about amp input trim. This reads as INPUT1 GAIN in the I/O tab. 0.158 seems like a very low global gain...

In the I/O settings I have my input 1 set up so I am barely going into the red and the input gain is something I am playing around with. Should this be set to zero? I have it increased slightly to .158 give or take. I really like the saturated type tones with alot of pick attack like Dino from fear factory type. Not trying to go for a particular artists tone but just want that saturated, quick pick attack. I love boosted Marshalls, 5150s, and rectifiers for that type of tone. So far I have a decent 5150 and rectifier tone built but like I said Its taken alot of boosting and more gain than I've seen most people use to get there. I even tried some free presets from SinMix which I loved those profiles on the Kemper but on my axe fx 3 it sounded very weak.

 

[mr_fender]

Input Gain in the I/O menu should be set to 1 for unity gain. If you have it set to 0.158 then you are only getting 15.8% of your guitar's output signal to the grid (84.2% reduction or about -16 dB lower).

It's a gain multiplier value. Values higher than 1 boost. Values lower than 1 cut.

 

[Shask]

Correction

I knew it was something like that. Or maybe it changed from the II to III? Not sure. Either way, I find raising it to about 1.3 to 1.5 really helps bring the aggressive pick attack for high gain like he is talking about.

 

[Shask]

Input Gain in the I/O menu should be set to 1 for unity gain. If you have it set to 0.158 then you are only getting 15.8% of your guitar's output signal to the grid (84.2% reduction or about -16 dB lower).

It's a gain multiplier value. Values higher than 1 boost. Values lower than 1 cut.

I also think something is up with his Global Input settings. I know on my Axe II one day I noticed I had the input gain at like 15% or something, and I also had the input mode set to sum L&R. The combination of these made all my high gain stuff sound very weak. I dont even know how long this went on. When I noticed it I turned the input gain to about 50% and set the mode to left only. That brought back the power and aggression, and was a big reason why I decided to upgrade to the newer generation with an FM3.

 

[mr_fender]

Yeah Input Gain at 1.3 would be about a 2.3 dB boost. At 1.5 would be about a 3.5 dB boost.

 

[JoKeR III]

If the YT videos sound great on your monitors but not so much with your Axe III, it's likely a setting like the 'Input 1 Gain' in the Axe. Maybe try resetting the system parameters to see if anything changes for you.

 

[skolacki]

I’ll upload a preset this weekend that I put together with a 5150 Block Letter using Parkway Drive’s settings combined with 4-5 things I pulled from the various Gift of Tone packs. I used Mikko’s IR, Petrucci compressor, etc. and it’s pretty good for me using Fishman Fluence Modern pickups.

Mikko’s IR is really good. My favorite thing from the GOT’s so far, along with Brad Whitford’s preset. Leon Todd has some great free IRs too which were part of his GOT.

 

[cole lewis]

Any recording you hear in a mix is double / quad tracked guitars with bass as well behind it.

So any preset made for recording is very likely going to sound not “big” enough by itself. Both in gain and bass level.

It might not be gain level you are actually looking for based on you saying you like playing through a poweramp and 4x12. Unless there is something wrong in your settings / signal chain, I think you are used to higher volume levels while playing guitar. It feels / sounds more saturated.

 

[mlancaster1]

For comparison purposes have you tried bypassing your Apollo and connect directly to the monitors? just to see if it sounds any different? I have an Apollo X6 and find when i go through it colors the sound vs direct into my FRFR speakers but i do it this way cuz my FRFR can take two inputs. So that way i keep my Apollo for general use when I'm not playing the Axe Fx

I actually have not tried that but will later today. I know the pre's can color the sound but I never questioned just how much. I have the preamp gain set at 16db. I find the leveling tool helpful but not sure how to balance the output 1 on front of the axe-fx 3 and not sure if I should have any gain applied to the pre's on my interface. Any advice on that would be appreciated, I need to dig a little more online regarding that but what I have found out about the output 1 knob on the front was that the optimal setting would be to keep it at 3 o'clock, not sure how accurate that is.

 

[unix-guy]

If I remember right, the amp input gain on 1 is like using the low input on an actual amp, and 1.5 on the input gain is like using the high input on the actual amp. I tend to put the input gain on most of my sounds at about 1.3 or so.

Also, the global input gain should be about 50%.

You’re kind of intermingling several things:

Global Input Gain - defaults to 1.0 and is a multiplier on the input signal level.

Input Drive on the Amp block - this controls drive/gain of the preamp.

Input Trim on the Amp block -defaults to 1.0 and is a pre-Drive multiplier on the input signal at the Amp block input. Set to .5 to emulate the "normal" input on Fender (and maybe other) amp models.

 

[blynd]

Well for one, don’t mess with the global settings unless you really know what you are doing. They can really cause you to chase your tail and have a ripple effect for all patches.

Second, eliminate the chain of devices. Start with just the AxeFX and some good headphones. Get a good sound there first and then start adding devices back in one by one. This helps to deduce any problems potentially caused by any other equipment.

** if you aren’t getting the tone you want when stripped back to just the AxeFX, try a different guitar to compare and see if it’s the unit. You may want to do a factory reset.

Last, the output/tone/etc depends on what you are planning to use the AxeFX for. Studio recording vs live playing are going be different versions of the same patches. When watching videos, those are typically all patches for studio use in a mix with post processing. I typically look for videos that show the patch dry and not in a mix. Otherwise, it’s deceiving and who knows what all was done in post.

 

[discondition]

Play with the input 1 gain in the main settings, or input trim.

Maybe your pickups aren’t as hot as the ones the presets were made for. My BKP juggernauts are too hot so I changed my global input 1 gain to 0.25. Presets sound great now (tighter on heavy presets and cleaner on clean presets).

 

[Shask]

You’re kind of intermingling several things:

Global Input Gain - defaults to 1.0 and is a multiplier on the input signal level.

Input Drive on the Amp block - this controls drive/gain of the preamp.

Input Trim on the Amp block -defaults to 1.0 and is a pre-Drive multiplier on the input signal at the Amp block input. Set to .5 to emulate the "normal" input on Fender (and maybe other) amp models.

I think I am using the terms from the Axe II, and the names have changed some.

Either way, same idea. Turn the global input to about half, and the input trim on the amp to a little above 1. Both of those will help getting enough signal into the amp to provide a saturated signal for high gain.

 

[aziz]

Strat with single coils is the answer. Your heavy tone will be Yngwie Malmsteen, which is a great tone, but thats not Animals as leaders tuned to Z.

 

[mlancaster1]

So I reverted the input gain settings back to 1, I cant remember if that was the default of not but I think I lowered it because of my inability to get the gate to be as tight as I want it to. So that basically solved the issue but brought me back to my original issue. If I am doing really tight percussive type playing, I would get this static coming in that the gate cant catch. I am using the intelligent gate on input 1 and have the threshold and ratio setting both at about 1-2 o'clock give or take. I've tried multiple gates but it seems to be overkill. I have the gain on the amp block set at 5 and input trim at 1 and this is on the 5150 block letter btw. Idk what to do about the static feedback that creeps in but the power in my apartment is super clean, everything is going into a furman that reads around 125. The using two PRS guitars to test this and one has a duncan distortion and the other is a prs metal pickup.

So setting the input gain back to 1 makes it sound good again but for tight type playing, I cant get the gate to catch everything.

 

[Budda]

Hey @My name is mud we got a gate’r!

OP may be worth spending a little on the isp decimator out front.