Touch-screen: IMO not a wish in FM9

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AxeFxCurious said:
I haven't seen anyone demo the hardware navigation;
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So you're basing your judgements of it being hard to use on what, exactly?

AxeFxCurious said:
I think unless Fractal ups their UI game it will be difficult to gain new customers.
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I think the VP4 and AM4 releases prove otherwise ;)

Granted that the interfaces are streamlined a bit, but people still buy this gear based on what the products deliver.
 
AxeFxCurious said:
The other modelers have gotten better to the point where people are saying they are "fractal quality".
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I haven't actually heard anyone say that. Only that they're good enough and cheaper.

In fact, all the vids I've seen talking about the AM4/VP4 are kinda like "thank god we finally have fractal quality in a smaller form factor".

But hey, according to some other dude, "many professional guitarists across Europe" forgo the AM4 for lack of an octaver, because it's the most popular effect in Greece... He didn't cite any sources for his extrapolation, either.

Meanwhile, it's selling out and getting very positive reviews...

Edit: I didn't mean this to sound so confrontational, everyone has their sources and opinions...
 
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The. are lot of vendors on the market pushing modeling.

Fractal is known for their modeling. It is top of heap and just keeps getting better. I smile every time I use it as I just cannot believe this can be done digitally. It's the feel, it's inspiring. I hope Fractal keeps evolving this.

Modeling is not what the others tout. It's all the bells and whistles that have nothing to do with tone. Line 6's "Hype control" is the epitome of this. It's literally a meme.

I hope this disease does not infect Fractal. Either way, as someone stated earlier in this thread, my worst outcome is that I have an FM9! 🥳
 
Others obviously disagree, but I’d rather save the money on a touch screen on the unit and use my own via BT/WiFi. Many of us who are gigging already have another touch screen present (phone or tablet) and controlling monitor mixes, set lists, and other aspects of a performance. On the rare occasion I find myself needing to adjust something on the fly at a gig, I’d rather do that standing up and using the tablet on my mic stand, even if it means swapping to a different app.

And unless either the touch screen is quite large or the number of controllable options is reduced considerably, users will start to run into spacing issues, parallax issues, and other problems of that ilk. And it is hard to make a larger touch screen rugged without affecting parallax in particular. I think that’s one reason a lot of us use the editor when doing initial setups: more screen real estate with a dedicated pointing device makes all those options a lot easier to access. A touch screen might have to be limited to only a few controls available at a time.

If touch screens are actually cheaper, I do hope they can be locked out to a degree during a performance. Mic cables and guitar cables have insulated jackets with enough conductive carbon in them that they register on most touch screens, so you could pretty easily see how something might go wrong.
 
greiswig said:
Others obviously disagree, but I’d rather save the money on a touch screen on the unit and use my own via BT/WiFi. Many of us who are gigging already have another touch screen present (phone or tablet) and controlling monitor mixes, set lists, and other aspects of a performance. On the rare occasion I find myself needing to adjust something on the fly at a gig, I’d rather do that standing up and using the tablet on my mic stand, even if it means swapping to a different app.

And unless either the touch screen is quite large or the number of controllable options is reduced considerably, users will start to run into spacing issues, parallax issues, and other problems of that ilk. And it is hard to make a larger touch screen rugged without affecting parallax in particular. I think that’s one reason a lot of us use the editor when doing initial setups: more screen real estate with a dedicated pointing device makes all those options a lot easier to access. A touch screen might have to be limited to only a few controls available at a time.

If touch screens are actually cheaper, I do hope they can be locked out to a degree during a performance. Mic cables and guitar cables have insulated jackets with enough conductive carbon in them that they register on most touch screens, so you could pretty easily see how something might go wrong.
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Don't worry. If there is a touch screen on the FM9T, someone will make a flip-up screen protector for $25 that everyone will happily buy.
 
Peavey Herman said:
I haven't actually heard anyone say that. Only that they're good enough and cheaper.
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I'm referring to what I've heard about Helix Stadium and TMP. I haven't directly compared them. Certainly the Fractal has a huge head start in number of models.

Also when I inquired about TMP, the amp models include power modeling built into the volume control and there isn't a way to run just the preamp, so they aren't well suited into the front of a tube amp. So that is not a professional application.

Helix Stadium only has 16 new models and everyone is raving about them but that is also tbd how they truly compare and how many / how long it will take to get them. I don't know if/how they separate preamp models from power amps.

If I was Fractal I would use a mobile framework to develop a mobile app that does similar thing as their PC app, but with touch. Then they could use that for the on-device touch screen. Thats all they are anyway, mobile apps running on the device.

IOW, Fractal has an apparent lead in number and quality of models, but they shouldn't rest on their laurels. They have a little window to catch up in the UI department before Stadium gets a significant number of amp models. If people start A/B/C the fractal/agoura/amp and consensus is they are the same, its hard to recommend fractal when the stadium has 100 agoura models in 2028 or whatever.
 
AxeFxCurious said:
I'm referring to what I've heard about Helix Stadium and TMP. I haven't directly compared them. Certainly the Fractal has a huge head start in number of models.

Also when I inquired about TMP, the amp models include power modeling built into the volume control and there isn't a way to run just the preamp, so they aren't well suited into the front of a tube amp. So that is not a professional application.

Helix Stadium only has 16 new models and everyone is raving about them but that is also tbd how they truly compare and how many / how long it will take to get them. I don't know if/how they separate preamp models from power amps.

If I was Fractal I would use a mobile framework to develop a mobile app that does similar thing as their PC app, but with touch. Then they could use that for the on-device touch screen. Thats all they are anyway, mobile apps running on the device.

IOW, Fractal has an apparent lead in number and quality of models, but they shouldn't rest on their laurels. They have a little window to catch up in the UI department before Stadium gets a significant number of amp models. If people start A/B/C the fractal/agoura/amp and consensus is they are the same, its hard to recommend fractal when the stadium has 100 agoura models in 2028 or whatever.
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There’s way more to the digital market that the amp models alone. Features and functionality play into things at least as much as the amp modeling-if not more.
 
Frodebro said:
There’s way more to the digital market that the amp models alone. Features and functionality play into things at least as much as the amp modeling-if not more.
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Features and functionality. That stadium is looking really good and I'm not a Line6 fan by any means.

They are already piling on features. I think having an audio recording built into patches to help demo what was intended is really a great idea. There are alot of other cool things. And just the fact that it (and the tmp) have pretty pictures of the gear means alot to (me).

All I'm saying is that "head in the sand" won't work for Fractal on UI/features/usability. At some point the community will reach a consensus on model quality and if in 2028 the 100+ agoura models are indistinguisable from the real gear and fractal models it will be a problem.

One way to look at it. Models are already very very close (or indistinguisahble) to the amps they are copying. (I don't even think profiles matter at this point.) However, User Interface / Functionality / Features are ever evolving and the sky is the limit.

I dont know what kind of dev resources Fractal has or if its even possible to keep up with Fender/Yamaha. If not, no shame. Nothing lasts for ever. Existing FX3/FM9 are going to be doing work for the next 20 years. New users will choose something with killer features/UI.
 
AxeFxCurious said:
I'm referring to what I've heard about Helix Stadium and TMP. I haven't directly compared them. Certainly the Fractal has a huge head start in number of models.

Also when I inquired about TMP, the amp models include power modeling built into the volume control and there isn't a way to run just the preamp, so they aren't well suited into the front of a tube amp. So that is not a professional application.

Helix Stadium only has 16 new models and everyone is raving about them but that is also tbd how they truly compare and how many / how long it will take to get them. I don't know if/how they separate preamp models from power amps.

If I was Fractal I would use a mobile framework to develop a mobile app that does similar thing as their PC app, but with touch. Then they could use that for the on-device touch screen. Thats all they are anyway, mobile apps running on the device.

IOW, Fractal has an apparent lead in number and quality of models, but they shouldn't rest on their laurels. They have a little window to catch up in the UI department before Stadium gets a significant number of amp models. If people start A/B/C the fractal/agoura/amp and consensus is they are the same, its hard to recommend fractal when the stadium has 100 agoura models in 2028 or whatever.
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AxeFxCurious said:
Features and functionality. That stadium is looking really good and I'm not a Line6 fan by any means.

They are already piling on features. I think having an audio recording built into patches to help demo what was intended is really a great idea. There are alot of other cool things. And just the fact that it (and the tmp) have pretty pictures of the gear means alot to (me).

All I'm saying is that "head in the sand" won't work for Fractal on UI/features/usability. At some point the community will reach a consensus on model quality and if in 2028 the 100+ agoura models are indistinguisable from the real gear and fractal models it will be a problem.

One way to look at it. Models are already very very close (or indistinguisahble) to the amps they are copying. (I don't even think profiles matter at this point.) However, User Interface / Functionality / Features are ever evolving and the sky is the limit.

I dont know what kind of dev resources Fractal has or if its even possible to keep up with Fender/Yamaha. If not, no shame. Nothing lasts for ever. Existing FX3/FM9 are going to be doing work for the next 20 years. New users will choose something with killer features/UI.
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ALL OF THIS, +1

If we're voting, then YES to the touch screen, and YES to an improved UI.

Honestly, I just wish we could stop pretending that we all love the current UI. Sure as long as we spend a bunch of money on Cooper's (most excellent) video vourse, keep the user manual handy, and carry our trusty laptop and/or ipad/fracpad when we gets stuck with something simple, it's great.

I played a gig last year, out of town, on a backlined Helix. I managed to program a complete preset with everything I needed, tweaked the sounds, setup snapshots, AND programed expression pedals with nothing but the device itself. It's idiot proof (and I was that idiot).

I was really tempted to switch, despite the obvious sonic shortcomings of the Helix. But I've quite a bit of time and energy learning the little bit that I know, and I carry a laptop/ipad jsut in case - but that's getting really old.

But FAS is surely aware of the competition, and that the sonic margins between them are slowly starting to narrow. Slowly, but surely.


I'm just not sure how FAS could possibly simply the UI without sacrificing functionality. I'm sure we would all agree that we wouldn't want to give any of that up. Apart from sound quality, that ultra-deep edit capability is what sets us apart.
 
greiswig said:
I think we might all agree that "Touchscreen" and "Intuitive UI" are not synonyms. (Or at least thus sayeth a 40-year career UX Designer and Researcher) ;)
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+1 but not sure about "all agree" as statements here often suggest an opinion that T.S. = Intuitive, and Non T.S. = Non Intuitive, and / or, that an intuitive interface can somehow compensate for being uninformed about the overall concept of what a given feature actually is and how it works in general (no need for CC's course for that - just RTFM a little). (Pretending / Head in the Sand indeed 🤣 - pretending that an intuitive UI will somehow impart knowledge - it doesn't, it's just a logical guide to the controls - we have that already in the context of a tonne more controls in Axfx compared to HX).
 
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sprint said:
+1 but not sure about "all agree" as statements here often suggest an opinion that T.S. = Intuitive, and Non T.S. = Non Intuitive, and / or, that an intuitive interface can somehow compensate for being uninformed about the overall concept of what a given feature actually is and how it works in general (no need for CC's course for that - just RTFM a little). (Pretending / Head in the Sand indeed 🤣 - pretending that an intuitive UI will somehow impart knowledge - it doesn't, it's just a logical guide to the controls - we have that already in the context of a tonne more controls in Axfx compared to HX).
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There is a general understanding that touch has the potential to be much better. Not all touch interfaces are good, but if Fractal builds one chances are it will be good.
 
Touchscreen or not, I think Fractal knows the UI in general on the upcoming units need to be better due to the competition. The VP4 and AM4 show this with their streamlind interface, but ability to go expert if needed.

A simple Undo button to go back one step would even help, as I find if making a mistake on a screen, its not easy to go back, so I exit out of the preset unsaved and do it all over again. I tremble when I have to make a deep edit at rehearsal on the unit.
 
Of all the people that hate on the Fractal UI, how many have actually taken the time to really learn it and practice using it?

Coming from the Axe II, the UI on the III has been a significant improvement. No major complaints here. Sure there's always room for improvement, so I have no doubt that the next gen units will raise the bar again.
 
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