Touch-screen: IMO not a wish in FM9

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BobXX said:
I recently came across a comparison between the LINE6 HELIX STADIUM XL and the AXE FX3.

Regardless of the fact that the comparison should be made with the FM9 instead, a great part of it were to explain the advantages of having a touch-screen.
I have the following considerations:

Having a touch screen can give a sense of modernity and appeal to many users, especially entry-level ones. For example, it's nice to see images of the amplifiers to be click on, instead of a list of their names to be selected from... :rolleyes:... ... If this is way to make the things easier: thumbs down.

Typically I'm absolutely pro-touch screen in nearly every context: I use them in PCs, my watch, my Korg keyboards and they are very useful and faster than any other UI.

But... and I know I might be going against the grain here, in my opinion, for serious/professional live use, a touch screen on a floor unit is a significant weakness — regardless of whether it’s capacitive or resistive.:
  • It's mechanically and electrically delicate, with higher environmental sensitivity
  • We often protect floor units with plexiglass covers, primarily covering the screen, which renders the touchscreen unusable
I'd much rather see BT/WiFi added, allowing use of "FMxEdit" from a tablet/smartphone:
  • You can adjust sounds while standing upright, without having to constantly bend down (I consider it a part of UI approach)
  • Your touch UI stays away from possible knocks, stomping feet, falling objects, spills of beer... :sweatdrops:
  • It can be the same tablet/smartphone you used to adjust your IEM settings
  • You can choose the best display size for your needs
  • If you break your "touch screen" it's easy to replace it in just a few minutes
  • You can upgrade to a newer/better touch device without replacing the entire unit
  • The display can be positioned at the optimal viewing angle for your setup
Conversely, I'd welcome a touchscreen on the AXE FX as a complementary interface :) rather than the primary one, while maintaining full functionality via buttons and knobs.
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I m completely with you..
 
Frodebro said:
As in the real world, the people who scream the loudest and the most often present the appearance that they are the majority. But actual numbers don't lie-if a touchscreen is a legitimate "need to have," this would be reflected in a noticeable tanking of sales in units without this feature.

Obviously we don't know the actual sales numbers for any company or product (and the few here who do are never going to divulge them), but it's a pretty good bet that sales of units without a touchscreen have not been decimated due to this projected "shortcoming."
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Sales don't tank overnight. People are invested in their current product. When it comes time to purchase again, that is when newer features come into the equation.
I'm not selling my FM3 or Axe 3 for the Line 6 Stadium or whatever....but to keep competitive, you must evolve your tech.

Or you become Blackberry.

Fractal builds the best technology solution for guitar modelling (in my opinion). Can you name another tech company that has refused to evolve to the latest trend features.....and survived?
 
ElectricPhase said:
Apparently the next gen hardware is finalized and they're working on the software, so the question is moot. They're doin' what they're doin'.
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Do you have any information about it?
I can image they will start on the AXE first, even if I'd prefer they start on FM9: IMHO the more needing to be empowered.

ElectricPhase said:
I like the idea of a phone/tablet app....but that could be a huge drain on resources that could be focused on, you know, sound.
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I agree, sound & flexibility first.
 
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ElectricPhase said:
Apparently the next gen hardware is finalized and they're working on the software, so the question is moot. They're doin' what they're doin'.

I like the idea of a phone/tablet app....but that could be a huge drain on resources that could be focused on, you know, sound.
Click to expand...
It's possible, but since nothing has been announced...
 
Peavey Herman said:
So maybe we can still dissuade him...🤔

PETITION.ORG! 🫡

(🤡🤡🤡)
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I actually wouldnt mind it, as long as I could lock it when playing Live. I loved the touch footswitch shortcuts on the OG Helix, and could fly through making edits on the fly, as I got used to them before the Editor was any good.
 
guitarplayer1969 said:
I actually wouldnt mind it, as long as I could lock it when playing Live. I loved the touch footswitch shortcuts on the OG Helix, and could fly through making edits on the fly, as I got used to them before the Editor was any good.
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I'm just kidding, anyway - despite some contrary opinions, I think the front panel is marvellous.

So I'm pretty sure Cliff and cohorts will put just as much thought into integrating a touchscreen into the overall UX.
 
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Lack of touch screen is what has kept me from purchasing Fractal.

The problem with Fractal is that if you are using a computer editor, you then need to ask, maybe I should be using plugins? If you are not gigging or using the device in real world, then plugins are infinitely better for music production as they integrate with daw, can be changed without reamping, etc etc.

And if you ARE using the hardware at gigs, the UI should be touch.

And not only that, it needs to have a GOOD design/workflow. Half of the touch modelers are well designed, the other half are NOT.

So it is a herculean task for Fractal to develop a UI on par with Line6 that benefits from the mistakes made by others. I don't see how they are going to do it, unless their operating budget is much greater than I anticipate. I think it would represent a very significant expense/difficulty. Kinda like monster garage developing a competitive F1 car.

The AM4 and smaller boxes get a free pass from needing touch because of their more limited scope. If Fractal does come out with a credible touch floorboard modeler, like an updated FM9 with touch (that has benefitted from the missteps of some other brands), I would be in the first batch of preorders.

Edit: I just had an interesting thought.. some of the small chinese clones have touch now. So its probably not impossible, but very difficult.
 
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AxeFxCurious said:
Lack of touch screen is what has kept me from purchasing Fractal.

The problem with Fractal is that if you are using a computer editor, you then need to ask, maybe I should be using plugins?
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Disagree. Even the units with touch screens tend to have computer editors for a number of reasons.

AxeFxCurious said:
If you are not gigging or using the device in real world, then plugins are infinitely better for music production as they integrate with daw, can be changed without reamping, etc etc.
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Disagree. Plugins have way more latency for actually enjoying the playing experience. Also, in my opinion, they don't really compare with Fractal modeling.

AxeFxCurious said:
And if you ARE using the hardware at gigs, the UI should be touch.
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Disagree. It has been zero problems for me gigging Fractal since 2013.
 
unix-guy said:
Disagree. Plugins have way more latency for actually enjoying the playing experience. Also, in my opinion, they don't really compare with Fractal modeling.
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That hasn't been my experience with a good low latency audio interface with modern computer. Especially considering the complexity of the chain tends not to impact latency on even a low-spec modern computer.

Some plugins are fantastic. They have gone through the same revolution in sound as hardware modellers. Just need good interface and good di.
 
Can't really see how a touch screen on a floor modeler would help me on stage. Its a pain to bend over to make adjustments, whether knobs or touch screen. I've got the best way, connecting my Surface pro to the USB so I can use FM9 Edit. I have the Surface pro on a stand, so it can be right up within easy reach. It would be nice to be able to connect it wirelessly. That would be best. Then thats not even really a big deal as the tablet is close enough for a 5 foot USB cable.
 
golfnut said:
Can't really see how a touch screen on a floor modeler would help me on stage. Its a pain to bend over to make adjustments, whether knobs or touch screen. I've got the best way, connecting my Surface pro to the USB so I can use FM9 Edit. I have the Surface pro on a stand, so it can be right up within easy reach. It would be nice to be able to connect it wirelessly. That would be best. Then thats not even really a big deal as the tablet is close enough for a 5 foot USB cable.
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I don't disagree, a wireless editor would be much easier if the unit is on the floor.
BUT - that assumes you have your Surface/Ipad with you.
If/when I don't have a tablet with me, a touch screen would be outstanding.
Now I always have an iPad at gigs....but it's connected to my mixer (as I'm mixing FOH and/or monitors on my iPad).
So disconnecting the mixer, to then connect to the Fractal to make an edit, is actually a risk (at a gig). So that means 2 iPads at every gig?

Again, there are lots of scenarios of having/not having an available tablet....but having the touch screen UI means it's ALWAYS available.
 
AxeFxCurious said:
Lack of touch screen is what has kept me from purchasing Fractal.

The problem with Fractal is that if you are using a computer editor, you then need to ask, maybe I should be using plugins? If you are not gigging or using the device in real world, then plugins are infinitely better for music production as they integrate with daw, can be changed without reamping, etc etc.

And if you ARE using the hardware at gigs, the UI should be touch.

And not only that, it needs to have a GOOD design/workflow. Half of the touch modelers are well designed, the other half are NOT.

So it is a herculean task for Fractal to develop a UI on par with Line6 that benefits from the mistakes made by others. I don't see how they are going to do it, unless their operating budget is much greater than I anticipate. I think it would represent a very significant expense/difficulty. Kinda like monster garage developing a competitive F1 car.

The AM4 and smaller boxes get a free pass from needing touch because of their more limited scope. If Fractal does come out with a credible touch floorboard modeler, like an updated FM9 with touch (that has benefitted from the missteps of some other brands), I would be in the first batch of preorders.

Edit: I just had an interesting thought.. some of the small chinese clones have touch now. So its probably not impossible, but very difficult.
Click to expand...

I use an FM9 almost exclusively with my band, and I can tweak things very quickly on the fly without a computer or touch screen. It's not hard at all if you take the time beforehand to learn how to use it. And I NEVER tweak my gear during a performance. If I don't have my $#!+ together when the gig starts, that's 100% on me for not doing the work in advance. We did a show a while back where my delay was way too wet (new preset that I threw together the night before and didn't properly test at volume). So I just bypassed the delay and ran without it until break and THEN took a minute to fix it. Without a touchscreen or computer to do so.
 
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Frodebro said:
I use an FM9 almost exclusively with my band, and I can tweak things very quickly on the fly without a computer or touch screen. It's not hard at all if you take the time beforehand to learn how to use it. And I NEVER tweak my gear during a performance. If I don't have my $#!+ together when the gig starts, that's 100% on me for not doing the work in advance. We did a show a while back where my delay was way too wet (new preset that I threw together the night before and didn't properly test at volume). So I just bypassed the delay and ran without it until break and THEN took a minute to fix it. Without a touchscreen or computer to do so.
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That's cool, I'm sure it works well once you learn it. I haven't seen anyone demo the hardware navigation; I've seen Leon Todd and others demo fractal stuff with the software.

The other modelers have gotten better to the point where people are saying they are "fractal quality". Then you also have ToneX and Namm where the profiles are certainly at "that level" (although I would much rather have models.) I think unless Fractal ups their UI game it will be difficult to gain new customers.

The other side of that is that the fractal modeling is already so good that you could be doing work with an FM9 20 years from now.
 
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