Tone-Matching Tips & Tricks: Double Tone-Matching/Blending etc

drawnacrol

drawnacrol

Inspired
I've been doing this since Clark Kent first uploaded his tutorial to youtube so I taught I would share some of things I've learned about tone matching. I'm going to assume you know how to tone-match already. If not watch the tutorial's stickied at the top of this forum.
I will just start listing things and briefly explaining them. If you want me to go into more detail or have a Q just ask.

First off when you tone-match an isolated guitar track you are matching the player, the guitar(woods/pots etc), the pickups and then the Amp + Cab.
Eg: Tone-Matching Jeff Loomis on a guitar with passive pickups will give them the characteristics of actives(EMGs) and visa versa
-or- when you match one of the rock band tracks you are matching a tone that has been compressed & mastered. Just something to take into account when you use them in your mixes.

When tone matching it must be an isolated guitar. If there is a cymbal crash or synths behind it you won't get an accurate representation of the tone. Listen to the start of "Damage Control by Dream Theater" or "Suburban Me by In Flames". Both are single guitar on its own which is perfect for tone-matching.

If you find an isolated guitar part but its double tracked(eg: Slaying the Dreamer by Nightwish) simply copy it into your DAW and pan left or right 100%. Sometimes guitarists use slightly different tones each side so try tone-matching both. Note that when you copy some files into your DAW they will be in 44.1 so they get sped up in the process of being imported into a 48 project. Open them up in Quicktime/Audacity beforehand and export them as 48 before importing and panning. (Let me know if I need to make a screenshot tutorial)

Yo Dawg I heard you like tone matching so know you can tone-match while you tone-match or "Double Tone Matching":
This is a really cool feature which I'm not even sure Cliff meant to introduce but here is how it works.
-Start off with getting the reference
-Then record your local and click Enter to Match
-So now you have a tone-match of the reference BUT if might not sound exact to your ears. Eg: Little to much bass/high end etc
-Since you are now playing through the tone-match tone you can re-record your local signal with your new tone.
-Just press Y on the Axe and record a new local
-Hit a chord and press Enter/Match. Notice their will be a slight change in tone. BOOM! You've now tone-matched twice and should be very close if not exact to the reference tone.

Blending/Tweaking Tones:
This is where Tone-matching really shines for me. Eg: Dial in a hi-gain rhythm tone with a lot of bass and low mids, all the notes will be clear and smooth but palm mutes will be muddy/overbearing. Then match it with a really tight rhythm tone from a recording of your choice. When you've matched the tight rhythm tone dial back the "Amount" & "Smooth" to taste. You will then have the strengths of both tones. Cutting palm mutes with a 3d feel to chords and notes. Try it!

Once you've tone matched a reference and have a tone you like start tweaking it. Insert a Parametric EQ at the end of your chain. High pass/Low Pass to taste. Lower/Raise the gain on the amp and the notch out all the fizzies using the looper and Parametric EQ.
Ad reverb/delay/effect etc Experiment!!!!

Make sure you use a good quality signal for your reference. Using Aiff/loseless audios files will give you a much better reference/tone than youtube or other compressed file formats(itunes/souncloud). The difference will be subtle in the end but it helps.

My final tone-match doesn't sound like my reference:
Make sure to set the gain on your amp close to the reference and try and dial in a similar tone.
Don't hi/low-pass because not all guitarists do this and the final tone-match will be inaccurate below 100Hz and above 12000HZ if this is where you blocked/shelved.
Use a similar amp head. Eg: Recto for Petrucci Tones, 6505 for metalcore etc Experiment!

I hope that helps some of you. The double matching should really help getting close to the final tone you want. These are just the way I go about tone-matching so don't take it as the way it has to be done. Other will have a different approach. Don't take any of this as concrete so experiment and find out what works for you!

Any Qs just ask!
 
Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery cool.

Thumbs way up; great tips and excellent observations about panning.
 
Nice summary, but there is one thing i would like to add.

drawnacrol said:
Don't hi/low-pass because not all guitarists do this and the final tone-match will be inaccurate below 100Hz and above 12000HZ if this is where you blocked/shelved.
Click to expand...

It's totally right that not everyone hi/low-passes, but if its done, i made the experience that the tone matching does not cut enough from the low- and highend (compared that several times with ozone, it's always the same). So if you think that your matched tone has too much low end rumble and high end compared to the original track, it may be helpful to block the exact frequencies you mentioned. Nevertheless, i would suggest to do this blocking only after the matching process and only if you feel the need to.
 
Cool stuff!
One question. Are you sure that the new local recorded guitar will go through the matched tone and after that take that "new local sample" of your playing.
Not sure if I can say this right, but I think that the TM block with that first local should be in front of new TM block (impossible) if you want to tone match it twice.
So the matching comes later in that block phase and your guitar will always be just that tone you build before TM block...
Am I wrong here?
 
drawnacrol said:
Yo Dawg I heard you like tone matching so know you can tone-match while you tone-match or "Double Tone Matching":
This is a really cool feature which I'm not even sure Cliff meant to introduce but here is how it works.
-Start off with getting the reference
-Then record your local and click Enter to Match
-So now you have a tone-match of the reference BUT if might not sound exact to your ears. Eg: Little to much bass/high end etc
-Since you are now playing through the tone-match tone you can re-record your local signal with your new tone.
-Just press Y on the Axe and record a new local
-Hit a chord and press Enter/Match. Notice their will be a slight change in tone. BOOM! You've now tone-matched twice and should be very close if not exact to the reference tone.
Click to expand...

As nexus was eluding to in the post above me, I'm pretty sure the "slight change in tone" you get when recording a new local signal is simply due to human playing differences between the re-recorded signal and the first one, rather than actually processing the tone match twice.

For example, if while recording the local signal for the 2nd time you dig in and play a bit harder/spankier than you did the first time, the resulting new matched EQ curve will have slightly more high end roll-off to compensate.
 
npx said:
As nexus was eluding to in the post above me, I'm pretty sure the "slight change in tone" you get when recording a new local signal is simply due to human playing differences between the re-recorded signal and the first one, rather than actually processing the tone match twice.

For example, if while recording the local signal for the 2nd time you dig in and play a bit harder/spankier than you did the first time, the resulting new matched EQ curve will have slightly more high end roll-off to compensate.
Click to expand...
+1
Otherwise we could get best tone if its matched like 100 times... and no need to find similar amp or anything.
Maybe FAS can tell us how this goes?
 
nexus said:
Cool stuff!
One question. Are you sure that the new local recorded guitar will go through the matched tone and after that take that "new local sample" of your playing.
Not sure if I can say this right, but I think that the TM block with that first local should be in front of new TM block (impossible) if you want to tone match it twice.
So the matching comes later in that block phase and your guitar will always be just that tone you build before TM block...
Am I wrong here?
Click to expand...

I wondered the same thing. I have not tried this but a much easier method that would work is just to record with the first tone match, then play that back and hit Y. I would think that would give you double tone-matching.
 
You have to remember since there's only one TMA block you always have to start tone matching a non-tone matched signal. Playing live, that is.

The only way around this is: Tone match, then export the match as a cab. Then import the new cab and match again. Maximum is 3 tone matches (since you can load two cabs and one TMA block into a preset.

It would be cool if we could merge 2 cab IRs (the frequency curves) into one . That way you could get closer and closer with unlimited matches.
 
Great post. Thank you.

Q: When getting the reference (for me its from iTunes>USB) Since iTunes has an EQ should I run it flat or totally bypass EQ. I am guessing that it
will affect the outcome of the reference.
 
Finnster said:
Great post. Thank you.

Q: When getting the reference (for me its from iTunes>USB) Since iTunes has an EQ should I run it flat or totally bypass EQ. I am guessing that it
will affect the outcome of the reference.
Click to expand...

If you want an unaffected signal you should bypass the EQ.
If you prefer the guitar sound with the iTunes EQ, leave it on, it will be further from the original sound, though.

Having said that I didn't check but I don't think a flat iTunes EQ colours the sound in any way, as vintage gear may do.
There's probably no audible difference between running that EQ flat or bypassing it.
 
year2525 said:
If you want an unaffected signal you should bypass the EQ.
If you prefer the guitar sound with the iTunes EQ, leave it on, it will be further from the original sound, though.

Having said that I didn't check but I don't think a flat iTunes EQ colours the sound in any way, as vintage gear may do.
There's probably no audible difference between running that EQ flat or bypassing it.
Click to expand...

I tried both, I had better luck with it flat or bypassed.

Tip for other users because most use some type of iTunes EQ'ing when playing through computer speakers.
 
Great tips, thx! One issue is that for certain bands it's near impossible to find lossless clips of pure guitar.
 
drawnacrol said:
Yo Dawg I heard you like tone matching so know you can tone-match while you tone-match or "Double Tone Matching":
This is a really cool feature which I'm not even sure Cliff meant to introduce but here is how it works.
-Start off with getting the reference
-Then record your local and click Enter to Match
-So now you have a tone-match of the reference BUT if might not sound exact to your ears. Eg: Little to much bass/high end etc
-Since you are now playing through the tone-match tone you can re-record your local signal with your new tone.
-Just press Y on the Axe and record a new local
-Hit a chord and press Enter/Match. Notice their will be a slight change in tone. BOOM! You've now tone-matched twice and should be very close if not exact to the reference tone.

I hope that helps some of you. The double matching should really help getting close to the final tone you want.
Click to expand...

Lots of good tips here.

But, as others have pointed out, with standard settings, when you re-record, you are overwriting the local signal. You're hearing your first tone match when you play because it is playing through the output. But that's not what the TMA is "hearing." With standard settings, however, the tone match block reads the signal going *into* the block--before it does any processing. So you're not refining the match by re-recording. The differences you're hearing are likely the small differences in the new matches you're making.

If you actually want to match twice, save the match as an IR, put it in a cab before a new TM block, and then match the signal going into the TMA through the IR.
 
Last edited:
Cheers everyone!

ccroyalsenders said:
But, as others have pointed out, with standard settings, when you re-record, you are overwriting the local signal. You're hearing your first tone match when you play because it is playing through the output. But that's not what the TMA is "hearing." With standard settings, however, the tone match block reads the signal going *into* the block--before it does any processing. So you're not refining the match by re-recording. The differences you're hearing are likely the small differences in the new matches you're making.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think I've made a mistake on this one. I'll record some EQ curves in Logic to see if its the old or new signal being recorded.

ccroyalsenders said:
If you actually want to match twice, save the match as an IR, put it in a cab before a new TM block, and then match the signal going into the TMA through the IR.
Click to expand...

Good tip! Will add it to the first post.


Frozen said:
It's totally right that not everyone hi/low-passes, but if its done, i made the experience that the tone matching does not cut enough from the low- and highend (compared that several times with ozone, it's always the same). So if you think that your matched tone has too much low end rumble and high end compared to the original track, it may be helpful to block the exact frequencies you mentioned. Nevertheless, i would suggest to do this blocking only after the matching process and only if you feel the need to.
Click to expand...

A good way to find out is doing an EQ sweep in your DAW to find out where it has been cut off on either end.
 
I would love an honest assessment as to how much better an additional tone match gets. I would assume the law of diminishing returns is at play here but anything in the 10 percent or better range might be worth going through the hassle of exporting the IR and the rest of the process.
 
Again, double tone matching is a myth.
The only way to double match a non-recorded signal is the one described above (exporting as cab and importing.
But even if you tonematch again, you'd have to leave the cab in the preset.
 
Or... you could just buy a second Axe FX II and chain them together! Then you would get double tone matching :lol
 
interesting..but then why does it sound different each time..what i mean is if you get your reference signal set then record your local and find maybe you didn't play long enough so you decide to hit "y" and do it again,why does it sound further processed or far different than where you started? It sure seems that your double tone matching going by what you hear. Obviously its not the case but I'm just confused i would think if your using the same reference and play the same riff on the local that each time would sound pretty similar but on my machine that is not the case

M
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom