Tone Gurus... I need your help!

EdToShred

EdToShred

Member
I need some help from you tone gurus. I love the Axe FX II. It rocks. I’ve managed to dial in several lead tones that feel and sound good. But, I’m having trouble with one element. I have trouble describing it so be patient.

I have a cheapy Digitech RP250 all in one multi effects pedal. It has one preset on it, GREASR. That feels great to play over. The base tone is unsteady, noisy and kinda thin… It doesn’t record well. But, when I play on this present there is something going on in the upper range that makes it feel good. The basic tone on the AXE is pristine in comparison. But, I'm having trouble dialing in one element.

On the Digitech I can get pinch harmonics with ease on bends effortlessly. Those harmonics almost seem to feed back on themselves creating a wonderful sustain. I can bend a string and get subtle almost feedback like upper harmonics that sustain as long as I want to keep the vibrato going. It’s almost like having a wah pedal going. It’s subtle but I find myself overcompensating on the AxeFX trying to get that same kind of response. In some cases it could be considered a Satriani style thing, but I don’t play it that way. I've gone through all the setting in the preset and tried to recreate it on the AXE. I get close but I'm missing that top end sustain/harmonic thing.

Up till I bought that Digitech pedal, I usually played through a simple rig. Guitar into a Peavy Triumph 60 with the on board verb going. No pedals. Just a simple lead tone. Because of that, I feel like I’m at a disadvantage on the AxeFX. I don’t know how to go about dialing in particular aspects of a target tone in terms of what amp, pedal, cab & FX are going to give the desired affect.

So, any help or suggestions would be welcome!

I don't know if it will help. I'm attaching a video. The lead track was done using the Digitech Preset I mentioned. I don't know if what I'm talking about will translate or not. It's a subtle thing that makes it feel more effortless to play but that may not translate all that well into the recording.


Thanks!
 
Have you tried using a delay block with Feedback Send and Return to create your feedback? There's a good example for this in the users manual.
 
Couldnt understand what youwere talking about from watching the video, the only thing I know, is the video was great, the tune was awesome. Great chops, great backing track, and cool look! Like the spawn of David Caruso and Buddy Holly. Hehehehe. If you could maybe record some bended pinch harmonics only, so that you can catch the isolated "phenomena" on video. Great job man anyway, keep it up!

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Try air parameter in the cab block.. Page 4 i think.... It does wonders sometimes.
 
EdToShred said:
I need some help from you tone gurus...
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Just a quick check here - what are you playing your Axe II through? Is it the same pa/cab/speaker you've played your Digitech through?
With the Axe II through FRFR solutions it might be a little bit harder to get that huge feedbacking going on... it requires volume and some speaker surface, if you know what I mean. Guitar speakers also tend to feedback much easier.
 
At this point I haven't even started to think about a live rig. I'm trying to get a tone going that I can record with. So, In both cases it's going directly to the computer and coming out a pair of KRK Rocket 8 monitors. It took me a while to post about this particular issue because it is hard for me to describe. What I'm talking about isn't traditional feedback... and who knows, it may not be feedback at all. It has elements of that feeling. The notes sustain and with a little vibrato want to keep going, but it's not like I'm holding the pickup in front of the speakers. I'll try to make some test clips and see if that helps define what I'm talking about.
 
Stringmanipulator said:
very nice playing :)
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Actually the playing is not the most impressive element for me, but what I really like about your video is the overall sensibility. I see absolutely no satch influence here :) What I get is the honed sense of lyricism, humour and fun. Enjoyed watching, especially the last few licks at the end. I like the way you enter, perform and exit without ever relinquishing the surprise element, which is a key to good art I suppose.

BTW greaser is, from what I remember, one of those digitech patches that made it feel easy to play, and sustain and that idea of feedback into the delay does seem to make sense, tho I don't have a handle on it either. I end up turning a compressor on and hit a ratio of around 15.....
 
I'm now more frustrated than when I first posted. I did a test today. I recorded a similar lead line using the Digitech RP250 Pedal, the OverLoud TH2 VST plugin and 2 different configurations in the AxeFX II. The frustration comes in that I can feel and hear the subtle body, resonance and sustain(I think resonance and sustain might be a better description than feedback that I called it earlier), that I was trying to describe at the beginning of this post, when I'm playing on the Digitech and the TH2 software plugin. But, by the time I slapped all the samples into a video to be able to compare them... that subtle vibe becomes harder to discern. I attached the video here.

When I listen back to the clips and move the play head between them in the video, I can hear the difference I'm trying to get at. But, it's subtle and hard as hell to define. It's almost like there is an EQ cut in the lower midrange on the Axe FX clips when compared to the other two. Whatever "it" is, it adds body and sustain. The reason this is most important to me is that when I have the "it" in there, it makes playing more effortless and fun. That translates into the final recording in the form of a better performance.

So, can YOU hear it? If you can... what the hell is it? And how can I dial it into the Axe? Thanks for listening! :geek

 
What you're describing sounds like acoustic feedback. That's where infinite sustain and "plays itself" feel come from. For that, you need room volume. There's no substitute for it.

EQ also affects it. Sometimes the signal chain emphasizes certain frequencies. Sometimes the room itself does that. Those are the frequencies where the rig seems to come alive and kick out overtones.

Crank the room volume. See how that helps. You might also want to mess with EQ (for instance, sweep a peaking filter back and forth to find the sweet spots). Also, try flipping the phase on the output. That will either help or hinder.
 
You might try messing with the multiband compressor block. I've noticed putting it after the amp and cab with high gain allows me to tweak it kind of like an EQ. I can tighten up the low end, fatten up the midrange, or tame an overly harsh high end.
 
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In your video, it almost sounded for a second like the Octavia. Try setting the drive block to the Octavia mode and mess with that. That's designed to bring out the 1st harmonic much more strongly, which I think is exactly what you're going for. Maybe the Digitech patch is actually using a subtle Octavia model?
 
Also, as mentioned, there's a lot more midrange in your Digitech patch. Maybe you can try the Drive block set to the mid boost setting, or perhaps add a filter or EQ before the amp with a mid boost in it.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm sweeping through the digitech sample with an EQ to try to find that magical "ahhhh". And Yes... I think the answer is hiding somewhere in the midrange. I'll try the suggestions and see what I come up with! I really appreciate the feedback!
 
Could it be something as simple as the gate in the Axe-Fx?

A while back I noticed that all my presets lacked something. Sustain wasn't quite where it should be and playing just felt too "stiff", making it feel more difficult to play. One day, I tried messing around with the gate. I notice that different gate settings made a very big difference in tone and feel. I was never quite happy until I turned the gate completely off. Now, almost all my presets have the gate off or at very mild settings.
 
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