Thoughts on my AX 8 Setup

DeathMagnetic

DeathMagnetic

Member
Hey guys,

so finally getting around to trying this thing out at practice.... Whats your thoughts on the following.chain

line 6 g 50
mission active volume pedal
dunlop petrucci wah pedal
ax 8
mesa boogie 2-50 power amp

thinking of lugging the mesa power amp this way i can get some uniformity of sound... whatever venue i am playing at would just have to plug into an existing guitar amp speaker or bring one of my own

thanks !

Joe
 
DeathMagnetic said:
Hey guys,

so finally getting around to trying this thing out at practice.... Whats your thoughts on the following.chain

line 6 g 50
mission active volume pedal
dunlop petrucci wah pedal
ax 8
mesa boogie 2-50 power amp

thinking of lugging the mesa power amp this way i can get some uniformity of sound... whatever venue i am playing at would just have to plug into an existing guitar amp speaker or bring one of my own

thanks !

Joe
Click to expand...

Anytime you use someone else's equipment (speaker cab) you throw uncertainty in the mix. So if you have enough time to dial in the sound each time, I guess it's ok. You could still use one of the AX8s outs with cab modeling to go direct, then bypass the cab with the other out to your amp and cab. Only thing is you will probably want to disable power amp modeling for the mesa and you can't do that for only one out when using modeling.
My recommendation from personal experience is get a powered clr which would be easier than lugging a power amp and cab around, you will also have consistent sound to expect and take advantage of power amp and ir models. That is if one clr is loud enough. IMO
 
NeoSound.. thanks for the tips... im actually thinking if the sound works out well id like to carry 2 1-12 mesa cabs for some nice stereo.. ( and probably mic that ) but at practice im not overly concerned with the bit of difference in sound... whats you thoughts on the analog vol and wah b4 the ax ?

thanks,
Joe
 
Why is so much made about going direct opposed to using a cab to get uniformity or consistency in tone? There are variables that can 'hurt' tone going direct as well, such as the ability of the sound engineer to mix and eq properly, if there actually is one, and the quality of the PA. If a player is dependent upon a cab being provided, it makes sense as there can be a huge difference in tone between speakers. If you're providing your own power amp and cab though, other than simplicity of setup, I don't see how going direct is a better solution. At the end of the day, the sound engineer is going to be mixing a mic'd guitar tone either way.
 
Just my opinion, but I don't think I would bother running stereo guitar cabs. In a small venue, the cabs would be so close to each other that it may as well be mono and nobody would notice or care. In a large venue, the cabs would be spread out to the point that some people may not hear the effect properly and it will just sound like it's cutting in and out or have phase issues.

The only way it would work properly is finely tuning the stereo effects with the room and miking both cabs. Pretty much every sound guy I ever met wanted to do the least amount of work possible and if there's any other guitarist in the band wouldn't want to manage a stereo guitar rig in case your levels are jumping around.

If I was going to run a cab live, it would probably be a 1x12 on a stand to get the sound up in the air. Again, smaller venues you wouldn't want to crank a 4x12 anyway and larger venues should have a capable PA to mic it.

Or even better, a good FRFR to use as a monitor if the venue doesn't give you your own mix and then run direct to the PA for the rest. And again, tweaking those stereo effects so they aren't super wide.
 
I think your setup sounds fine. If you feel you need the volume and wah and simply don't ever need them to do anything else then that will work great for you. Lots of people like the power amp cab method and direct out 1. Including myself. Especially if you own all of that currently then keep it all for awhile.
 
Sonofiam said:
Why is so much made about going direct opposed to using a cab to get uniformity or consistency in tone? There are variables that can 'hurt' tone going direct as well, such as the ability of the sound engineer to mix and eq properly, if there actually is one, and the quality of the PA. If a player is dependent upon a cab being provided, it makes sense as there can be a huge difference in tone between speakers. If you're providing your own power amp and cab though, other than simplicity of setup, I don't see how going direct is a better solution. At the end of the day, the sound engineer is going to be mixing a mic'd guitar tone either way.
Click to expand...
That's an interesting question. I always go direct to FOH in all venues. Here's my rationale:
  • By going direct, I'm eliminating many other variables (mic model / placement / distance). In my opinion this makes setting up much easier, and is 100% consistent from show to show.
  • Because my FRFR system is tonally neutral, I can use any of the AxeFX / AX8 cabinet models and microphone models that I want to. They're part of the patch, rather than being external to my processing chain. That means I can dial in the amp / mic response that is best for each patch without being constrained to a specific physical amp / speaker cabinet. Before I got my AxeFX, I used a Boogie Lonestar, which is a mighty fine tube amp. It really sounded amazing, and I'd put a lot of time into making it exactly what I wanted. The challenge was that it had a very distinct sonic personality - a good one, but it meant that I was always using an idealized Fender Blackface Twin profile at the end of my signal chain. Again, it's a fantastic tone. But if you want the flexibility of switching to another profile in the AxeFX, you might ultimately find it convenient to have the amp and cabinet be as neutral as possible. I sold my Lonestar a few years ago. I don't even own a "regular" guitar amp any more.
  • My backline / stage sound is via a flat-response amp into FRFR cabs. I know they are not going to impart any coloration to my tone, so what I programmed is what's being heard, both onstage and to FOH.
  • I don't even need my cabs for all shows. I use my FRFR speaker cabs when we're playing locally, or on a traditional tour where we take our gear out on the road for a run of shows. My cabs are in flight cases, and are well-suited for loading into the equipment truck for ground-based touring where we drive from venue to venue. Despite being compact, those cabs / flight cases are heavy. When we do fly dates, or one-off festival shows, I want to limit the weight / size of my system. I often will just bring my AxeFX or AX8, go direct, and have the engineer put some guitar in my stage monitor. Occasionally, I fly to / from the performance in the same day. It's convenient to be able to fit my entire "fly rig" easily into the trunk of a compact rental car, and I can hand-carry my rig + guitar in a single load without a hand truck. Because I'm not dependent on my power amp or speaker cabinets for my tone, I can still be confident that the board is getting what I programmed.
  • Also on the theme of "I don't even need my cabs for all shows" : I use an in-ear monitoring system for a lot of performances, especially in larger venues / arenas. Having a fully realized guitar tone out of the AxeFX / AX8 means I can give FOH a direct feed, and know what is coming to my in-ears is the same signal - without any extraneous sound being picked up from a cabinet mic.
  • Whether or not there is a sound person, the board / amp / room sonic characteristics are in play. If there isn't a sound person in the club, and you're basically "mixing from the stage", I would much rather use a direct feed for my guitar than attempt using a mic on a cabinet. In those situations, I plug in, set my board channel EQ flat, and just adjust the volume as needed. A great sound person will figure out a way to make it work no matter what, so I'd rather focus on how to improve my odds in the other circumstances.
I won't try to convince anyone that there is one "correct" way. No matter what approach you take, the FOH engineer is at the mixing board, and has ultimate control over how the guitar sounds in the mix. My recommendation is always discuss it with them in advance. I always inform the house mixing engineer that I will be providing a direct XLR feed (or two) from my system to the board, and that it is full-range. In past years there was sometimes a hesitancy if the engineer wasn't familiar with the AxeFX / AX8, and they might say "I've tried modeling systems and they don't sound good direct." I just ask them to give it a try during soundcheck, and tell them if they can't work with my signal, then we'll figure out another approach. I have been using the AxeFX live at a lot of gigs, and no one has ever asked to switch to a mic. I've heard from many engineers "that is the best guitar tone I've ever had at the board", which should be an indication of how good the direct sends are.

Because the FOH engineer is mixing the band, and hearing your guitar in the context of the full band, buy them a beer after soundcheck, and tell them you'll be asking them for suggestions after the show. Ask them "is my signal too wet? are my effects overwhelming / muddying the mix? did you have to EQ my guitar signal? do you have any recommendations for EQ adjustments to my patches? what could I change that would make my guitar easier to use in the full band mix?". You don't need to use all of their recommendations, but you should definitely leverage their expertise.
 
Yea, ditch the power amp and cabs and get a FRFR speaker... Much easier and you open up so many more tones. Also, like others have mentioned, no need for stereo, as its not going to translate live.
 
Only caveat to what @Sleestak says is: as long as I trust the sound guy and have confidence in the system. If they're a pro or it's a carefully controlled environment, direct it is. Just so much easier. I love using IEMs and getting a consistent, great monitor mix.
 
It seems the general consensus is going direct is just easier. It's not really a matter of which method sounds better live, it boils down to the amount of gear we want to lug around and the time spent setting it up. It is nice to have such an incredible modeler that allows us to have the choice without compromising tone.

I haven't played a lot of different places but I've mic'd cabs and used IEM's for years and have not had any issues with my tone or mix at any venue.
 
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