Thoughts on Fractal vs Neural DSP in Light of John Mayer’s Comments in 2019?

J

Jay_y

Member
I’m a big fan of John Mayer’s music, and I originally became interested in the Fractal world partly because John was an endorser for a time. I recently purchased an AM4, and not long after that, John released his Archetype Neural DSP plugin.

Back in 2019, John mentioned that while he was using Fractal, it didn’t quite respond to the guitar’s volume knob the way a real amp does. He said that his own Archetype addressed issues that he was concerned before, and that he was genuinely surprised by how far digital modelers have come.



John Cordy mentioned this, too.


I’ve tried the Neural DSP Archetype John Mayer demo, and honestly, it sounded fantastic. At the same time, I also think the amp modeling in the AM4 sounds excellent, and overall I’m very satisfied with it.

Being completely honest, however, I’m a bit of a gear snob, and John Mayer is one of my guitar heroes. Because of that, I can’t help but wonder:

Is there something in John’s Archetype that represents a more advanced or refined modeling approach than Fractal, even if I personally can’t clearly articulate or hear the difference?

I’m not trying to start a debate or brand war—I’m genuinely curious what others think. Has Fractal’s amp modeling slightly fallen behind the cutting edge at this point? And if so, should I feel like I made a less-than-optimal purchasing decision?

I’d really appreciate hearing your thoughts and perspectives.
 
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Jay_y said:
I’m a big fan of John Mayer’s music, and I originally became interested in the Fractal world partly because John was an endorser for a time. I recently purchased an AM4, and not long after that, John released his Neural DSP plugin.

Back in 2019, John mentioned that while he was using Fractal, it didn’t quite respond to the guitar’s volume knob the way a real amp does. He said that his own Archetype addressed issues that he was concerned before, and that he was genuinely surprised by how far digital modelers have come.

I’ve tried the Neural DSP Archetype John Mayer demo, and honestly, it sounded fantastic. At the same time, I also think the amp modeling in the AM4 sounds excellent, and overall I’m very satisfied with it.

Being completely honest, however, I’m a bit of a gear snob, and John Mayer is one of my guitar heroes. Because of that, I can’t help but wonder:

Is there something in John’s Archetype that represents a more advanced or refined modeling approach than Fractal, even if I personally can’t clearly articulate or hear the difference?

I’m not trying to start a debate or brand war—I’m genuinely curious what others think. Has Fractal’s amp modeling slightly fallen behind the cutting edge at this point? And if so, should I feel like I made a less-than-optimal purchasing decision?

I’d really appreciate hearing your thoughts and perspectives.
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$$$$$$$ 💶💷💰💸
 
Actually the new Mayer plugin from Neural just came out last week, and he did a review of it. I am not really a John Mayer follower but I had known that he was at one point using Fractal a few years back for certain projects, but not sure of the specific use.

I am a huge fan of the Edge from U2 and I know he uses Fractal, but not for Amp modeling as he went with UA when he was forced to go ampless for the Las Vegas sphere shows. In his case he wasnt doing it to endorse a product wheras John Mayer's looks like a paid sponsorship IMO.
 
Relatively sure the improvements that have been made to the Axe FX in the past 6 years put that issue to rest a while ago.
 
Until John Mayer lets me roll off his (volume) knob my only option is to look at his (paid) opinion with a healthy dose of skepticism. I prefer it anyway to judge these things by trying to fiddle with my own (volume) knob. And to great satisfaction, even with just the FM3, i.e. without the variable input impedance circuitry of an Axe-Fx which greatly influences how the guitar circuit and the "amp" interact with each other.

So yea, you certainly did make a buying mistake: by not getting the Axe-Fx III which has this feature.
 
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kvik said:
Until John Mayer lets me roll off his (volume) knob my only option is to look at his (paid) opinion with a healthy dose of skepticism. I prefer it anyway to judge these things by trying to fiddle with my own (volume) knob. And to great satisfaction, even with just the FM3, i.e. without the variable input impedance circuitry of an Axe-Fx which greatly influences how the guitar and the "amp" interact with each other.

So yea, you certainly did make a buying mistake: by not getting the Axe-Fx III which has this feature.
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스크린샷 2025-12-22 오후 4.42.45.png

Well, it seems like AM4 does have variable input impedance.. doesn't it?
 
I’m sure the plugin sounds great, but I’m not interested in buying hardware and then paying for firmware updates, which is what "plugin compatibility" actually is. Then they use that money to write a check to John Mayer to make a video about how great the plugin is.
 
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Things i dont think about: what john mayer says.

Things john mayer doesnt think about: me.

Seems to work :)

Edit: no shade to JM, dudes got chops and a good career out of it. I just dont worry about what famous (or otherwise) people say about gear 99% of the time.
 
Little by little, it’s becoming clear that mathematical modeling sometimes still sounds more convincing than a neural‑network‑based approach.
Black‑box products like Neural often reproduce behaviors that drift away from the original, while a mathematical model gives you a more refined and accurate result. And today, with the power available in modern PCs and workstations, you can run mathematically modeled plugins that sound absolutely insane — just look at Nembrini or Softube.

What’s built inside a neural model stays that way until they rebuild the ENTIRE amplifier from scratch. A white‑box model, on the other hand, can be corrected or refined at any moment, and as computing power increases, we’ll be able to “open the taps” and achieve even more detailed mathematical models.

We’re probably already seeing — or will soon see — grey‑box models: using white‑box modeling wherever it gives the best results, and relying on neural‑network sections only for the parts where the mathematical model is still too complex to implement efficiently.

But when you really listen carefully, the flaws start to show — even on the Quad Cortex.
I’m not talking about captures; I’m talking about the models, that i care; captures are good buy limited for custom and adapted/optimized sounds on owned guitars and pu at max accuracy

John Mayer? A lot of Money...Mountains of Money

Amen
 
The demo video of the new Neural John Mayer archetype sounds really good. But I think $199 is way too expensive.

I bought the Plini X and Tim Henson archetype on sale and have used them on several recordings now. I like them both and also the archetype user interface. But I also use my Axe fx and love it. You don’t have to choose and can use both Fractal and Neural DSP.
 
Jay_y said:
I originally became interested in the Fractal world partly because John was an endorser for a time
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Cliff already mentioned that they don't do endorsement and they don't send free gear. I'm not saying that JM is not more satisfied with NDSP than Fractal, I have no idea, but you should keep in mind that he is getting money from NSDP and he was never getting money from Fractal.

Personally I tried it and it was good but not really better than anything I could get out of my FM9, but I'm also not the target audience for the JM's tone. If I was a QC user I would be pissed I have to spend $200 on top of my expensive unit though, and I'm glad Fractal has a different business model
 
John Mayer also seemed to think that Fender and their entire Custom Shop wouldn't be able to produce a guitar with his specifications, but PRS could. :smile:
I also bought an AM4 and, out of pure curiosity, gave in to the hype, and tried the new Archetype John Mayer plugin.
It sounds good, and I could get similar sounds from other plugins they've made, but it's not Fractal competition.
 
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