this thing is very daunting for a noob...

smegolas

Inspired
Ive been thinking about buying an Axe FX. However - after reading some posts on this website, I am wondering if its right for me. I love the idea of how good this thing can sound. However - My time is limited and I am hopeful that I will be able to tweak it to get those great tones. But Im also reading about the complexities of programming external foot controllers (such as the Behringer unit), and the complexities of various audio interfaces and getting a good tone thru a DAW (I would be using Garageband). All of this stuff is very new to me. Was anyone else out there in my situation and ended up buying an Axe FX and various components and have things work out well (you figured it all out)? What components would you recommend? All I want to do is play in my basement and do some recording on my new iMac.

I guess the main point of this is to say to Cliff: why not make this thing more accessible to people like myself (maybe impossible)? If this was set up like POD X3 Live with a few footpedals and an expression pedal and USB for recording and downloading patches, etc I would have already bought one. Maybe Im fretting needlessly and its not as bad as I think, but it all seems quite overwhelming...

signed,
NOOB
 
I was able to get some great presets and program a half dozen or so sequential patches on my MIDI controller within a few hours and did a gig the next day. As far as your DAW you can go line in or SPDIF, that is no problem at all.

It can be about as deep as you want to go but IMO you can really just treat it like you would an amp, less the knobs, and get great sounds pretty easily as well.
 
You can go as deep as you want, or stay as shallow as you want. It sounds great right out of the box. Gotta warn you, though, once you start tweeking it's hard to stop! :) There is a return policy if you want to try before you commit. Wherever you want to go the Axe can probably get you there.
 
With a PEQ, an Amp, and a Cab model I was able to VERY closely model a Laney VC30 (which sounded FANTASTIC btw) tonight in less than an hour... in the studio A/Bing with the actual amp mic'd with an SM57. I coulda nailed it with just those 3 blocks too given more time, but my point is you don't have to go into all the crazy stuff to get a good tone. I didn't even use the advanced parameters at all. It took me 10 minutes to get close and the rest of the time really dialing it in. In fact, we actually cut an entire track using the 10-minute tone and it wasn't until we needed a little more aggressive tone that we fired the Laney back up and did some A/Bing. Don't ask why we didn't just use the Laney... it's a long and frustrating story.

That being said, I've done a lot of reading on these boards, the Wiki, the manual, and have spent many hours deep down the rabbit hole dialing in my own tones. I can say with confidence that if you have a good sense of what you're actually hearing in tone and can identify the qualities of a good sound, you can dial in just about anything pretty quickly. If you can't tell mids from highs though, you're going to spend a lot of time randomly turning knobs to see what they do.
 
smegolas said:
Ive been thinking about buying an Axe FX. However - after reading some posts on this website, I am wondering if its right for me. I love the idea of how good this thing can sound. However - My time is limited and I am hopeful that I will be able to tweak it to get those great tones. But Im also reading about the complexities of programming external foot controllers (such as the Behringer unit), and the complexities of various audio interfaces and getting a good tone thru a DAW (I would be using Garageband). All of this stuff is very new to me. Was anyone else out there in my situation and ended up buying an Axe FX and various components and have things work out well (you figured it all out)? What components would you recommend? All I want to do is play in my basement and do some recording on my new iMac.

I guess the main point of this is to say to Cliff: why not make this thing more accessible to people like myself (maybe impossible)? If this was set up like POD X3 Live with a few footpedals and an expression pedal and USB for recording and downloading patches, etc I would have already bought one. Maybe Im fretting needlessly and its not as bad as I think, but it all seems quite overwhelming...

signed,
NOOB


I have heard this commentary several times, and it never ceases to leave me a bit bewildered.

Think of it this way. You walk into a large room that contains about 50 amps, 40 cabs, 10 microphones, 15 drive boxes, a dozen reverbs, a ton of pedals and a myriad of some of the world's most advanced VSTs. Additionally, near each and every vintage head rests a toolbox with instructions on how to alter the internal components and the corresponding tonal modifications that will occur. The message you then hear is "have at it - go find yourself a nice sound."
While your reaction may be an understandable panic; a logical and effective strategy would be to take one amp, one cab, a drive box and a reverb unit to tweak for the next week. It's nice knowing you can come back and grab another cab, overdrive, or reverb if you so choose - but you don't have to. Take your time, don't feel pressured to re-bias or match transformers, and just take it slow. The rest of the room can wait.

The Axe-Fx is no different. You have a plethora of options that you don't have to explore right out of the box. Treat this little black magic box like you would our mythical mega gear room - with diligence.
 
logicroxx said:
Think of it this way. You walk into a large room that contains about 50 amps, 40 cabs, 10 microphones, 15 drive boxes, a dozen reverbs, a ton of pedals and a myriad of some of the world's most advanced VSTs. Additionally, near each and every vintage head rests a toolbox with instructions on how to alter the internal components and the corresponding tonal modifications that will occur. The message you then hear is "have at it - go find yourself a nice sound."
While your reaction may be an understandable panic; a logical and effective strategy would be to take one amp, one cab, a drive box and a reverb unit to tweak for the next week. It's nice knowing you can come back and grab another cab, overdrive, or reverb if you so choose - but you don't have to. Take your time, don't feel pressured to re-bias or match transformers, and just take it slow. The rest of the room can wait.

The Axe-Fx is no different. You have a plethora of options that you don't have to explore right out of the box. Treat this little black magic box like you would our mythical mega gear room - with diligence.

Wow, that is a good way to look at it. I just received my Ultra yesterday and although I had been reading the manual in advance anticipation of it's arrival, I was still overwhelmed with all the options. I figured out enough to turn off the cab sim and hook it up to the Return of my amp to get the sound amplified, but then I just spent the next two hours just playing the thing on the stock presets! I haven't even messed with creating or tweaking any of the tones yet.

I need to have a notebook next to me and start jotting down the presets with the tones that I like that can be a basis for tweaking. Some of them though are just fine as is... I especially liked the Brian May lead sound preset... it's a tone that I've never been able to replicate with the equipment I had, and there it was... one twist of the knob and I was playing the Bohemian Rhapsody solo. I also need to learn "Where the Streets Have No Name" just so I can demo that preset to my friends... hahaha
 
I think it depends on where you're already coming from. If you've never used a similar unit before, then yes, of course it will be daunting. The question then, imho, is whether or not you believe you'll be picky about the sound quality to the point that it justifies the cost difference of the Axe-Fx.

For basement/bedroom use, you may not even need a floor controller. As a primarily bedroom player, I honestly rarely ever hook my floor controller up these days -- I most definitely know how to use it, but for the most part, I don't need to.

-----

Ever use Photoshop? To me, the Axe-Fx and Photoshop are very similar in that, if you've never used Photoshop before, opening it up the first time is very overwhelming. If you've used a similar tool, like Paint Shop Pro, it's still daunting, but not as inaccessible since you're familiar with the goals and likely capability. After a few hours of messing with it though, you'll have the hang of a few of the tools and be able to do some basic stuff. You might never even find out what the other tools do -- I'm sure many Photoshop "experts" don't know what everything does. But in time, you experiment with things, or read about things, and slowly build your skills. What you created in your first couple of days might look like crap -- and then again, it might not -- it depends on how effectively you are able to use the tools that you learn, and the basic tools of the Axe-Fx can probably be learned in a day. Maybe two.
 
I dont think its too bad really. OK, if you want to use all the advanced parameters, EQs and loads of FX then yes, it can be a bit daunting.

However, just using a blank preset, adding one amp block and plugging the Axe into a regular cab (via whatever amp you want, valve/ss or guitar amps power section) and you can get good sounds just using the first 2 pages. You have gain, vol, basxs, mid, trebble and presence just like a regular amp. Also deep, sag and damping for a little extra tweeking. Just using this and it sounds good.

Add a Cab block for recording and your away. Any FX (like reverb or delay) you want - just add that block and audition the types (like you do the amps). the stock defaults all sound good. OK you may need to adjust the speed of repeats or room size for reverbs but thats not hard.

Once you get used to it, then you may want to go deeper - it depends how picky you want to be about your sound!! - but it gets easier very quickly.
 
I think that the AxeFx can be particularly daunting if you don't have a particular tone in your head that you're trying to chase. I've mostly tweaked a handful of presets only creating a couple patches from scratch. Dialing in a basic amp patch with a couple basic stomps (compressor & drive) doesn't really take more than about 20 minutes...about what I'd take with a physical rig. The difference is that I now have a bewildering array of virtual gear at my disposal.
 
logicroxx said:
smegolas said:
Ive been thinking about buying an Axe FX. However - after reading some posts on this website, I am wondering if its right for me. I love the idea of how good this thing can sound. However - My time is limited and I am hopeful that I will be able to tweak it to get those great tones. But Im also reading about the complexities of programming external foot controllers (such as the Behringer unit), and the complexities of various audio interfaces and getting a good tone thru a DAW (I would be using Garageband). All of this stuff is very new to me. Was anyone else out there in my situation and ended up buying an Axe FX and various components and have things work out well (you figured it all out)? What components would you recommend? All I want to do is play in my basement and do some recording on my new iMac.

I guess the main point of this is to say to Cliff: why not make this thing more accessible to people like myself (maybe impossible)? If this was set up like POD X3 Live with a few footpedals and an expression pedal and USB for recording and downloading patches, etc I would have already bought one. Maybe Im fretting needlessly and its not as bad as I think, but it all seems quite overwhelming...

signed,
NOOB


I have heard this commentary several times, and it never ceases to leave me a bit bewildered.

Think of it this way. You walk into a large room that contains about 50 amps, 40 cabs, 10 microphones, 15 drive boxes, a dozen reverbs, a ton of pedals and a myriad of some of the world's most advanced VSTs. Additionally, near each and every vintage head rests a toolbox with instructions on how to alter the internal components and the corresponding tonal modifications that will occur. The message you then hear is "have at it - go find yourself a nice sound."
While your reaction may be an understandable panic; a logical and effective strategy would be to take one amp, one cab, a drive box and a reverb unit to tweak for the next week. It's nice knowing you can come back and grab another cab, overdrive, or reverb if you so choose - but you don't have to. Take your time, don't feel pressured to re-bias or match transformers, and just take it slow. The rest of the room can wait.

The Axe-Fx is no different. You have a plethora of options that you don't have to explore right out of the box. Treat this little black magic box like you would our mythical mega gear room - with diligence.



Pefect advice/analogy!

When I got my first Axe, way back when, I felt very intimidated for a while. ( I am very much an amp, drive pedal guy).

The second I started applying the same logic I would to "real" amps/setups, the Axe became a wonderful experience.

Truth, be told, I probably use less than 20% of what the thing can do, but then I never used many effects anyway, so it is just now in a smaller package that sounds and feels stellar :cool:
 
Thanks for the help guys. Actually Im looking forward do doing a little tweaking (Ive never owned a real tube amp). Its just when you add everything together - trying to figure out what audio interface to get to cover all your needs, what pedal board to get that will correctly work without too much difficulty, how well your recording software will work well and easily with it, etc…all together it becomes daunting. I mean – people are talking about buying that behringer 1010 pedal and then swapping the chip in it – good God! I would need a foot pedal for switching patches/adding effects while playing with backing tracks or my buddies and of course wah wah etc. A more all on one solution like the POD X3 Live with no worries about compatibility issues would be more appealing to a guy like me (and many others I suspect).

Anyways, thanks, the responses are reassuring; I just need to take it slow.

Does anyone know of a good basic resource someone could read to figure out things like the basics of tweaking amps and cabs, when and why to place effects before or after the amp, in series and parallel, etc. I will read the manual, but Im guessing some of it will be a little technical for me. Also possibly the pros and cons of various foot pedals and audio interfaces which work with the Axe?

Heres another one: is it easy to get the exact tone from your axe fx recorded? Some people seem to be having trouble with this.
 
For live shows, I'm perfectly happy using all of two or three amp models and a handful of effects. Mentally, I still picture a multi-channel head behind me, with a (programmable) pedalboard below. The analogy of having a roomful of amps is a good one, and that's precisely how I approach the unit as well.
 
smegolas said:
Heres another one: is it easy to get the exact tone from your axe fx recorded? Some people seem to be having trouble with this.

No. You can record digital straight out or analog in, directly. There is no issue recording exactly what you get - assuming you are running FRFR.

If you run into power amps and cabs; yes, you'll have to record that another way to get your tone down, same as anything else.
 
Scott Peterson said:
smegolas said:
Heres another one: is it easy to get the exact tone from your axe fx recorded? Some people seem to be having trouble with this.

No. You can record digital straight out or analog in, directly. There is no issue recording exactly what you get - assuming you are running FRFR.

If you run into power amps and cabs; yes, you'll have to record that another way to get your tone down, same as anything else.

this is good to know. i will be running thru my behringer 2031a's, which i assume are frfr.
 
iohanr said:
I need to have a notebook next to me and start jotting down the presets with the tones that I like that can be a basis for tweaking. Some of them though are just fine as is... I especially liked the Brian May lead sound preset... it's a tone that I've never been able to replicate with the equipment I had, and there it was... one twist of the knob and I was playing the Bohemian Rhapsody solo. I also need to learn "Where the Streets Have No Name" just so I can demo that preset to my friends... hahaha

Different opinion here; Exploring the presets to see what they can do is fine, but I don't recommend that a beginner start by tweaking existing presets. To me, that's like deciding to learn to swim when you arrive in the middle of the ocean for a scuba diving trip. The factory presets were built with a thorough knowledge of what the unit can do. Most of those will leave the beginner asking why certain things were done and the answers to those questions are not directly answered in the documentation. You might be able to surmise the answers by reading about every element used in the preset, but it begs the question: why should one choose to reverse engineer an application in order to figure out how to use a new computer?

I recommend a simpler and more intuitive path. Find - or figure out how to make - an empty slot. Figuring out how to clear a preset of everything is a good introduction to navigating the Axe-Fx, because it immediately teaches you how to get yourself OUT of confusion or trouble.

Once you have an empty slot, figure out how to add an amp block, then a cabinet block, and wire them together input through to output. Amp and cab, nothing else. Then sit and play with the basic amp controls and make it sound as good as you can. Don't touch the advanced tab, don't get into the arcanities of the transformer controls or B+ capacitance or any of that. Pretend you're sitting in a music store trying out an amplifier. Once you've figured out the basics of one amp and cab, explore other amp types and cabinets the same way, as if you were working your way through the amplifier stock of a music store. The amp and cab models are, for most folks who buy the Axe-FX, the heart of everything. So start there.

When you've got a handle on one amp/one cab. Then start adding more elements. Add a drive block in front of the amp, as if you'd just plugged in a footpedal. Get a handle on that. Add a reverb block at the other end. These are natural exploration paths - many amplifiers have built in reverb and most guitarists have used pedals. These are not the foreign concepts that, say, a filter block, a sequencer, or the issues that arise when using multiple amps can very well be.

Start from what you know and work forward, don't try to start from what Cliff knows and work backwards. That would be very hard work. We aren't guitar WORKERS. We're guitar PLAYERS.

So play. Have fun. Getting an Axe-FX is like inheriting a candy store. You don't start by chemically analyzing the caramels. First you unlock the door. Then you start sampling the merchandise.

That's my advice, anyway.

As for learning about tweaking amps and what effects go where and when and why, these are excellent questions to get answered here. Search the threads and read. And if you don't find an answer, politely post your question in the appropriate forum. You'll get a wealth of support here - provided you don't act like an ass. You might very well even get your question answered by the man who designed this magic box. That's what's cool about living in Axe-FX world.
 
Yup, its intimidating.

I started out I knew next to nothing about all this stuff. Now I have a good handle on most of it, but there are still things that people do here that make me drool dumbfoundedly.

Keep in mind that most of our pain is SELF IMPOSED. Overall simple operation and setup is pretty easy. It's when you start thinking 'I sure would like the autowah to engage at 50% on this pedal', or some other complicated operation that you get a little lost.

It's a simple as you want it to be. Getting great tones is out of the box, but being satisfied with not using all the other stuff is where you run into trouble.

And you do have 15 days to send it back with nothing but the cost of shipping out of your pocket.
 
i think many people are coming from the line 6 or digitech experience, and those modelers made a lot of choices for you, thus limiting your sound options.

axefx gives you all the options, but with that comes the RESPONSIBILITY of learning what each option does.

just take your time. i don't think most people will buy it and gig it the next day. yet, there can be a balance achieved so you aren't spending months before actually using it.

i'd say go through presets (and then people complain there are too many to go through) and find what sounds closest to what you want, then adjust the amp settings from there. then slowly venture out to changing other menus and values.
 
smegolas said:
Does anyone know of a good basic resource someone could read to figure out things like the basics of tweaking amps and cabs, when and why to place effects before or after the amp, in series and parallel, etc.
I used to want something like that myself.
To be honest, a year and a half after owning an Axe-Fx, I still don't know what's "normal" other than that the amp block goes in front of the cab block. And usually I'll put the drive block in front of the amp. But I experiment a lot with the other effect blocks.

The best resource I can think of to get a general idea of what other people do, normal or not, would be the diagrams on Guitar Geek.
 
Go to a blank preset load a basic amp and cab and play with it for a wile to see what each parameter does. You don't need to become an audio engineer to tune the Axe use your ears ;)
 
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