Thinking to buy FM3 but..

G

George Homme

New Member
Greetings. I am new to the Fractal camp and a tube amp user. But....as we are expecting a baby i will need to ditch my amp and play almost with headphones. I have Sennheisers HD600. My style is Country rock, rockabilly , rock plus i have a band which we play downtune fuzzdriven rock stoner stuff.

My budget currently allows for 1300-1500 Euros for new gear. So i am thinking either FM3 or Full HElix FLoor / Rack.

My concerns or the FM3 as i can t find one to try are

1. My needs are 1-2 Drives(1 Fuzz) + Amp + Cab + Delay + Reverb + EQ maybe(if i need one). Will i be alright with the FM3 CPU Capabilities?

2. What about the input impedance of the FM3. The Axe fx iii or Helix for example has Auto Inpedance (Variable) but on the FM3 the input impedance is locked in 1Mohm. How this will affect my sound and if yes in which case?

3. IS there a possibility that the FM3 will be abandoned as the FM9 is out?

4. I have read some threads on various forums that the FM3 has some issues still like feedback etc. Are those issues been taken care of with updates or not?

5. Some people say that the Axe Fx FM3 editor is slow. What they mean with that?

6. IS the Virtual Capo usable with the FM3? I am asking this because my guitar is tuned in standard tuning and with one of my bands we play 2 tones down (D or C). IF its usable and provided that you don t hear any Warbling / cracking noises etc how much Cpu /Dsp it uses?

7. How is FM3 with Headphones.?

8. After Cygnus update is the FM3 using more cpu than when running Ares ?

For people that used FM3 and Helix do you think that is better to go with the FM3 or the full Helix platform which i will not have any limitations Cpu etc? Regarding of tones i suspect that FM3 is quite better if not similar to helix.


Thanks in advance.
 
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As for 1), the FM3 is capable and probably with room for a bit of modulation-fx on top. You can adjust reverb-settings if the cpu load gets high, and the economy settings allready sounds good.

A typical presets for me have wah, drive (1), univibe, amp, cab with one IR, chorus and/or flanger, reverb, delay and looper. (Not everything on at the same time , but that doesn’t make a difference)

The amp-block itself has bulit in pages for input EQ and output EQ. So you can probably get away without a separete EQ-block if you’re not using it for something special.

As for Helix, I’ve only played a bit with the Stomp and the Native plugin. The depth in the Fractal modelling is something else in my opinion. But still, many get fine results on the Helix plattform too.
 
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I think you'll find answers to every questions here using the search function (more or less you having nothing to worry about). I will suggest that for #6, no the virtual capo currently isn't good enough IMHO (no idea if the forthcoming update will improve it), however I'd also suggest that if I was playing with a group where every song is in an alternate tuning I'd keep a guitar in that specific tuning vs trying to digitally alter tuning.
 
Save yourself a ton of headaches over the next few years and get your baby acclimated to loud noises. One of my friends' baby LOVES loud noises; music, parties, sporting events - this is the coolest baby ever.

In any case, I'm not here to tell you how to raise your kid lol. Besides, I'm excited for you to get an FM3.

1. Yes.
2. Never affected my sound negatively. I'm not one to really care about riding the volume knob while playing into a battery powered Fuzz Face or whatever.
3. Not likely any time soon. it is almost two years into its life cycle, so take that into consideration. It's a brillliant unit as it sits even if it were to be abandoned.
4. Never once heard of this or experienced it.
5. Editors only get slow when you overload the presets. Otherwise they're very fast and keep up well. When I'm connected to the editor, I do all my editing on it.
6. I've been gigging with the current Virtual Capo on the FM3 for about 7 months. It's fine. It's not as good as the Drop pedal or as good as the Axe Fx III's (and now FM9's) algorithm, but fingers crossed it will be with the FW update coming very soon. It sounds perfect with overdrive/distortion, but clean guitar sounds weird, especially finger-picked or arpeggiated parts. That said, in a full band context, it sounds fine enough.
7. Depends on how good your headphones are.
8. I think they advertised that it would use less DSP, but I think it uses more; slightly. It's worth it though.
 
George Homme said:
Greetings. I am new to the Fractal camp and a tube amp user. But....as we are expecting a baby i will need to ditch my amp and play almost with headphones. I have Sennheisers HD600. My style is Country rock, rockabilly , rock plus i have a band which we play downtune fuzzdriven rock stoner stuff.

My budget currently allows for 1300-1500 Euros for new gear. So i am thinking either FM3 or Full HElix FLoor / Rack.

My concerns or the FM3 as i can t find one to try are

1. My needs are 1-2 Drives(1 Fuzz) + Amp + Cab + Delay + Reverb + EQ maybe(if i need one). Will i be alright with the FM3 CPU Capabilities?

2. What about the input impedance of the FM3. The Axe fx iii or Helix for example has Auto Inpedance (Variable) but on the FM3 the input impedance is locked in 1Mohm. How this will affect my sound and if yes in which case?

3. IS there a possibility that the FM3 will be abandoned as the FM9 is out?

4. I have read some threads on various forums that the FM3 has some issues still like feedback etc. Are those issues been taken care of with updates or not?

5. Some people say that the Axe Fx FM3 editor is slow. What they mean with that?

6. IS the Virtual Capo usable with the FM3? I am asking this because my guitar is tuned in standard tuning and with one of my bands we play 2 tones down (D or C). IF its usable and provided that you don t hear any Warbling / cracking noises etc how much Cpu /Dsp it uses?

7. How is FM3 with Headphones.?

8. After Cygnus update is the FM3 using more cpu than when running Ares ?

For people that used FM3 and Helix do you think that is better to go with the FM3 or the full Helix platform which i will not have any limitations Cpu etc? Regarding of tones i suspect that FM3 is quite better if not similar to helix.


Thanks in advance.
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1. You should not have any CPU issues with that setup. You could add some more FX blocks in
2. It's a very subtle difference, I would not worry about it
3. Likely it will be around for a long time
4. Those issues go back a long time. No issues now
5. You add a little latency when using Fm3 edit when playing. Only an issue for playing live
6. The FM3 pitch block has not been updated. Not sure when this will match the Axe III
7. Sounds great
8. About the same

I have not played the Helix after the new FW update, but the Helix LT is cheaper, and the HX Stomp is less than half price of the FM3 in Europe.
 
George Homme said:
4. I have read some threads on various forums that the FM3 has some issues still like feedback etc. Are those issues been taken care of with updates or not?
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Feedback? Still? Huh? Do we still beat our wives?

I’ve had an FM3 since the first firmware and never had a problem with feedback. Feedback is merely acoustic coupling that has been allowed to run out of control, which would be something the user did wrong. Stand farther back, reduce the volume and/or gain, or use a guitar that isn’t as sensitive to the coupling; it’s the result of physics, not electronics.

It’s possible for the user to wire a signal chain and get runaway amplification, but that’s on them. We’re given the power to wire as we want, it’s up to us whether we do dumb things with it.

It’s possible to get tweeter squeal from standing too close to some types of speakers, but, again, that’s not electronics, it’s physics; magnetic fields from the tweeter can be picked up by the pickups, and standing farther away from the speaker will fix it. This would occur with any modeler connected to that speaker.

Be wary of claims about problems with the units. Fractal is the most responsive company I have ever seen when it comes to dealing with problems in the units. Anything like that would have been fixed right away. Also remember there are people who have an axe to grind, or are paid by the competition and… shall we say… “don’t care whether what they say is truthful.”

George Homme said:
5. Some people say that the Axe Fx FM3 editor is slow. What they mean with that?
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There’s no way to respond to a nebulous “some have said…” type statement, especially one where we have absolutely no idea what they meant, except with a general statement.

It’s the same speed as the FX3; just like any modeler that relies on USB, all three units can be affected by the speed and quality of the USB connection, the speed of the computer hosting the editor, and how busy the CPU is in the modeler. If the CPU is overloaded in a Fractal modeler, it will focus on maintaining sound quality and won’t service the USB connection as quickly and creating presets correctly will generally fix that problem. Some people say it’s on the user to use common sense.

George Homme said:
7. How is FM3 with Headphones.?
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Excellent. All three units use the same D/A converters which output CD-quality sound. I drive Sennheiser HD650, Audio-Technica ATX-40 and Shure earphones and they all sound very good.
 
Quick note: DO NOT try to make a "kitchen sink" preset that does everything. If you don't need that Phaser Block in the preset, don't add it. Get into using more - but less complicated - presets. That said, if you use the low-DSP utilities (EQs, Volume/Pan, etc.) you can add a lot of versatility, but you're not gonna have a pitch, 2 drives, 2 compressors, an amp, a cab with 2 speakers, a chorus, a phaser, a delay, a reverb, and a looper all in one preset; you gotta find the zen in working within the DSP limitations. For instance, use the built-in drives within the amp block instead of a drive block. User the multi-tap or plex delay for delay AND reverb instead of having each one of those separate blocks.
 
If you’re not sold after testing the twenty first presets (amps) in the fm3 then nothing will make you happy.

I had hx stomp amazing toy, amazing.

Fm3, is not a toy.

And it’s mind blowing for the styles you listed that you play.

I have some of the amps in real life that are in the fractal.
There is ZERO difference between them and fm3.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
Save yourself a ton of headaches over the next few years and get your baby acclimated to loud noises. One of my friends' baby LOVES loud noises; music, parties, sporting events - this is the coolest baby ever.
Click to expand...

This is SO important if you are a musician. Those who get trained to walk on eggshells
and coddle their children against any and all noise or volume are doing both themselves
and their children a huge disservice.

Preferably, start when they are in the womb. Of course, that requires a good woman. :)

My youngest son is now 15 and has never once complained about music. Play all the time
in the house, including live drums and a full band. Even when I ask he brushes me off. It's
just normal for us.
 
1. Same use case as me. Totally fine.
2. Not an issue
3. Who knows. Seems likely to be around a while.
4. Never experienced
5. For editing it's very usable
6. Dunno
7. I prefer it through headphones to monitors
8. Not sure. But see 1 above

I really disliked the Helix. Looks great. Nice interface. Sounds digital when I play through it. Sounds nice enough on YouTube, but I didn't enjoy playing through it.
 
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la noise said:
This is SO important if you are a musician. Those who get trained to walk on eggshells
and coddle their children against any and all noise or volume are doing both themselves
and their children a huge disservice.

Preferably, start when they are in the womb. Of course, that requires a good woman. :)

My youngest son is now 15 and has never once complained about music. Play all the time
in the house, including live drums and a full band. Even when I ask he brushes me off. It's
just normal for us.
Click to expand...
On the other hand. His wife will be tired. There'll be feeding thru the night, sleeping in, afternoon naps. A modeler and headphones us definitely handy. Even now, I know for sure that my teenage kids and my wife are much happier when I use headphones when I butcher 80s hair rock.
 
I have an Axe III, so my answers may not apply 100%, but I think for at least some of your questions, you should try it and see if it will work for you (I think it will.) You've obviously put a lot of thought into your post, and did some good research to find things like fixed impedance, so you'll most likely be able to put it through its paces within the return window.

That being said, regarding a couple of your concerns, I've switched that impedance setting, and I hear no difference, but I don't use any guitars that have low-output PU's, so that may be why. I think the 3 and the III share the same headphone circuitry, and I didn't like the sound through headphones until I applied a Global headphone EQ correction, and now they're fine. This is the page that shows the EQ settings for my headphones; You should be able to find yours.

The Virtual Capo in the Pitch Block is not as good in the FM3 as the one in the Axe, but even before it was improved (I believe they were the same prior to the Axe getting the upgrade), I found very little latency (only noticeable in clean, arpeggiated passages), and just a slight bit of warbling, but only as the notes decayed. Neither of which were so poor that I wouldn't have used it in a live setting. I believe Fractal is working on porting that upgraded block to the FM3, but again, this is one of those things you'd be best served in trying it for yourself.

Overall, from reading many posts from guys here who own/have owned both the Helix and FM3, the scale definitely seems to tip in favor of the FM3. @la noise even plays with a guy who owns the Helix, and he claims his FM3 is far superior-sounding.
 
George Homme said:
Greetings. I am new to the Fractal camp and a tube amp user. But....as we are expecting a baby i will need to ditch my amp and play almost with headphones. I have Sennheisers HD600. My style is Country rock, rockabilly , rock plus i have a band which we play downtune fuzzdriven rock stoner stuff.

My budget currently allows for 1300-1500 Euros for new gear. So i am thinking either FM3 or Full HElix FLoor / Rack.

My concerns or the FM3 as i can t find one to try are

1. My needs are 1-2 Drives(1 Fuzz) + Amp + Cab + Delay + Reverb + EQ maybe(if i need one). Will i be alright with the FM3 CPU Capabilities?

2. What about the input impedance of the FM3. The Axe fx iii or Helix for example has Auto Inpedance (Variable) but on the FM3 the input impedance is locked in 1Mohm. How this will affect my sound and if yes in which case?

3. IS there a possibility that the FM3 will be abandoned as the FM9 is out?

4. I have read some threads on various forums that the FM3 has some issues still like feedback etc. Are those issues been taken care of with updates or not?

5. Some people say that the Axe Fx FM3 editor is slow. What they mean with that?

6. IS the Virtual Capo usable with the FM3? I am asking this because my guitar is tuned in standard tuning and with one of my bands we play 2 tones down (D or C). IF its usable and provided that you don t hear any Warbling / cracking noises etc how much Cpu /Dsp it uses?

7. How is FM3 with Headphones.?

8. After Cygnus update is the FM3 using more cpu than when running Ares ?

For people that used FM3 and Helix do you think that is better to go with the FM3 or the full Helix platform which i will not have any limitations Cpu etc? Regarding of tones i suspect that FM3 is quite better if not similar to helix.


Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
I have both, and while the Helix is a great piece of gear the Fractal amp modeling is better to my ears. With the chain you laid out you should have no problem with cpu power.
 
Buy it. You will be happy. On the other hand, the resale value stays high on Fractal stuffPlus you do get the return policy which Fractal honors well.
 
George Homme said:
Greetings. I am new to the Fractal camp and a tube amp user. But....as we are expecting a baby i will need to ditch my amp and play almost with headphones. I have Sennheisers HD600. My style is Country rock, rockabilly , rock plus i have a band which we play downtune fuzzdriven rock stoner stuff.
Click to expand...
Do yourself a favor and avoid the Helix. (I say that jokingly; everything is subject to your own tastes). Several people (myself included) feel there is just always something missing in the Helix amp algorithms vs Fractal. Most of your other concerns have been addressed above.
 
1. My needs are 1-2 Drives(1 Fuzz) + Amp + Cab + Delay + Reverb + EQ maybe(if i need one). Will i be alright with the FM3 CPU Capabilities?

Yes, easily. On my main preset I'm running pitch, wah, comp, drive, flange, amp, delay, reverb, para eq, cab (2 IRs) + 2 outputs. I've optimised it so it's basically just maxed before warnings start happening and the sound cuts out, but you can do big presets on the FM3 easily.

2. What about the input impedance of the FM3. The Axe fx iii or Helix for example has Auto Inpedance (Variable) but on the FM3 the input impedance is locked in 1Mohm. How this will affect my sound and if yes in which case?

Possibly, I doubt you will notice any difference.

3. IS there a possibility that the FM3 will be abandoned as the FM9 is out?

I don't think so until (if) they release Axe FX 4 and the floor versions of Axe 4. But seeing as the FM9 is still on waitlist I think that will be a while.

4. I have read some threads on various forums that the FM3 has some issues still like feedback etc. Are those issues been taken care of with updates or not?

This hasn't been an issue for me

5. Some people say that the Axe Fx FM3 editor is slow. What they mean with that?

It's not instant to update on screen like the unit is, it might take a second to register changes. Or sometimes after firmware updates it has to reload everything from the device. But it's absolutely fine for the most part.

6. IS the Virtual Capo usable with the FM3? I am asking this because my guitar is tuned in standard tuning and with one of my bands we play 2 tones down (D or C). IF its usable and provided that you don t hear any Warbling / cracking noises etc how much Cpu /Dsp it uses?

I don't think it's useable in my experience. Maybe to D might be just ok but not anything more than that. There is slight latency and it doesn't sound 'natural'. I mean you can use it but I don't think it sounds very good.

7. How is FM3 with Headphones.?

I have an early non HP version, but I'm sure it's great direct. I've used it with headphones before via my interface.

8. After Cygnus update is the FM3 using more cpu than when running Ares ?

I don't recall there being a big difference, if any.
 
By no means I am an expert but I can share my very limited experience with the Helix floor and the FM3.

Normally I ignored the digital and modeling gear section of the great page but just for fun I did some reading and got interested in the FM9, only to find out that I would be up for a very long wait in Europe. I thought the FM3 would be underpowered and not enough footswitches so I decided to purchase a used Helix after reading many posts that people get good results and after some tweaking it sounds as good as the Fractal units.

Bought the Helix and did not quite like what I heard, only a few presets sounded good to me, almost nothing that I really liked. After watching a lot Jason Sadities video’s and try to copy what he did I concluded that I don’t want tot have to dive in deep to get some decent tone. I want to start with something that is already 90% there and fine-tune for my liking, not start at 70% and get it to maybe 90%. So I decided to purchase the FM3 to make a comparison.

After receiving the FM3, it made me smile. There are many presets really I liked that only require some minor adjustments to gain and eq to match my taste. I was able to dial in a tone that is very, very close to my Mesa MkV90 on the MkIV settings, just by staying relatively close to the settings on the real thing and tweak from there.

I am not a drive pedal person so I can greatly appreciate the huge collection of amp models! The Helix drives are supposed to be better but if I don’t use them I don’t care. The Delays and Reverb of the Helix were not my taste but zo love what I heard in the FM3.

The user interface on the Helix itself is way easier than on the FM3, with all respect, that l has the look and feel of gear from at least a decade ago. However, I already found my way around and I am able to build a patch. On the other hand, I like the FM3 edit software way more than the Helix editor. This may be because I already watched dozens of Leon Todd’s video’s before deciding I want to buy a modeler.

After firing up the FM3, the Helix is collecting dust so I will put it up for sale. When the FM9 will become available I will probably make a switch tot that unit, not that I need but I would love to play around with 2 amps in parallel and to have more floor switches.
 
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