Thinking of Switching from VHT 2:90:2 to Solid State

[mlancaster1]

So I am considering switching to something like a power stage 700 watt amp for a couple of reasons. For one, my rack is extremely heavy as is, so I am looking to lighten the overall load for commuting. And secondly, I would like to run my Output 1 for FOH with power amp modeling and Cab modeling enabled while running Output 3 to my power amp and cab for stage sound. I feel like the solid state option will allow me to create a more simple preset, where as I am currently trying to create 2 identical chains with 2 of the same amp blocks, one with all modeling enabled and the other amp block with power amp off. Only problem with this is I am not sure how to control the effects so that when I hit for example, Delay 1, that it will turn on both delays going to FOH and Power amp and Cab. Ill post a couple of screenshots of what I am trying to do and please let me know if there is an easier way to do this. Otherwise let me know your thoughts on switching to a solid state amp and whether it was a huge difference in feel. I know the Fryette sounds great but would like to know if anyone also ran their fractal through the power stage and was just as happy with the result.

 

[craiguitar]

I've always run my setup with presets similar to the second screenshot you posted. A single effects chain, tapping off to OUT 3 before the cab block. I don't see any benefit to creating two seperate effect chains.
From OUT 3 I've been using a Matrix GT1000FX into a real Marshall cab with Celestion V30 speakers.
I recently also got a Fryette LXII for a 'non' SS option also. To be fair, I haven't noticed any significant difference in sound between the two power amps. My plan is to continue to use the Matrix mostly, because it's way more portable, and employ the LXII for larger gigs.

 

[FPFL]

if you are going to A/B the two power amps, make sure to have a decibel meter and use the looper for the playing. versus playing in real time.
IME, much of the "tube sounds better" mindset is driven from people uderpowering the comparison, giving the SS rig fewer decibels of push.

I've also run split outputs the way you are, but for my new hybrid rig - one 1x12 guitar cab and a 12" FRFR monitor I split run dual cabs panned hard left and hard right. The IR on hard right is set to the "FLAT" IR so it makes no difference to sound, the IR on the left is whatever cab I feel like for the scene - usually a 4x12 GB of some sort.

 

[mlancaster1]

So I am guessing that you leave power amp modeling on so both FOH and Poweramp and cab both get that? By keeping the VHT power amp in the rig I want to be able to split the chain so power amp modeling is disabled for the amp and cab signal while remaining on for the FOH signal. I'm not sure how it can be done or if the solution is to keep the signal chain like the second pic and leave power amp modeling on for both paths.

 

[darkknight91]

I use a Powerstage but I keep the power amp modeling on. It’s not really voiced to be a guitar amp. It’s a clean transparent amp so I’m not sure why you would turn the power amp modeling off. I run just one amp path but to 3 outputs. 1 to FOH, 2 to iem transmitter and 4 to the Powerstage for the stage cabinet. The PS is great but the eq settings make all the difference. I’ve tried all kinds of settings but settled on bass and treb at 12:30 and mid at 1:00. The bass may need to be pulled back depending on the stage but that’s the settings that work for me.

 

[mlancaster1]

I use a Powerstage but I keep the power amp modeling on. It’s not really voiced to be a guitar amp. It’s a clean transparent amp so I’m not sure why you would turn the power amp modeling off. I run just one amp path but to 3 outputs. 1 to FOH, 2 to iem transmitter and 4 to the Powerstage for the stage cabinet. The PS is great but the eq settings make all the difference. I’ve tried all kinds of settings but settled on bass and treb at 12:30 and mid at 1:00. The bass may need to be pulled back depending on the stage but that’s the settings that work for me.

Thats why I am considering switching to a powerstage so I can run a simple setup and split before the cab to 2 separate outputs. So with the power stage I would just leave power amp modeling on but what I am trying to figure out is how do I do this with my current setup using a VHT power amp? Only option I can think of is keep the signal the same as if I would use a solid state amp and leave power amp modeling on and then get the coloration of the tube power amp coming out the cab. But If I want the power amp modeling off for only Output 3 (VHT Poweramp & Cab), how can this be done? I thought of copying the amp block and recreating the signal chain to output 3 but then I'm not sure how to switch the effects for both signal paths simultaneously. And also thought to copy the amp block and link it the the pedal chain and then splitting it before the cab block to run into output 3 but then I run into the problem of both Amp blocks feeding into output 1 as well output 3.

 

[RoshRoslin]

If you can find one, the GT1000fx would be a good choice to replace. You can always use the global EQ (to output 3) to compensate for any tweaks you need without affecting the FOH tone.

 

[darkknight91]

If you go with the Duncan then all you need is one amp setup splitting into how many outputs you need. If you go with the Fryette then, yes, you’d want the power amp modeling off and the only way I know how to do that is running two amp paths like you stated earlier. As far as switching all the effects on and off on each path with a switcher it would be pretty simple with an RJM but I don’t know how to do that with another switcher.

I’ve had a Matrix before the Duncan that died after 6 weeks and fried two speakers. I didn’t hear or feel any difference, despite all the internet hype, between that and the Duncan. In fact, I say the Duncan is better because of the eq but as stated before, you can add output eq in the Fractal. And good luck getting one fixed if it takes a dive.

 

[jamongrande]

The "power amp on/off" thing is an interesting thing to me. Older amp models like Plexis and tweeds need the modeling for the gain and some dynamic timbrel response, and some don't. And while a 2:90:2 might color the signal, it surely isn't breaking up in the way that those older models' power sections are regularly run. I think some models can sound great with the PA modeling on run into a colored poweramp. Then you don't need two different signal paths.

But to get both effects to turn on/off in each signal chain, I think you can use a control switch assigned to bypass the similar blocks. Alternatively, you could use a 3rd party midi controller to send a single CC message, and assign that single number to the mirroring blocks (e.g. Delay 1 and Delay 2 are assigned to CC 43).

Lastly, I used to run a Powerstage 170, and eventually moved to a Fryette LXII. Pretty significant difference to my ears. Powerstage has been gone for a while now. I keep power amp modelling on (LXII doesn't breakup at the levels I run it) and send the same signal path down the line except for a cab block at the very end going to FOH. Sometimes I will EQ the poweramp output differently in the global settings, and I was playing with dynamic distortion (primarily presence cut) to dial in the real cabinet tone.

 

[mlancaster1]

Yeah I tried copying the amp

If you go with the Duncan then all you need is one amp setup splitting into how many outputs you need. If you go with the Fryette then, yes, you’d want the power amp modeling off and the only way I know how to do that is running two amp paths like you stated earlier. As far as switching all the effects on and off on each path with a switcher it would be pretty simple with an RJM but I don’t know how to do that with another switcher.

I’ve had a Matrix before the Duncan that died after 6 weeks and fried two speakers. I didn’t hear or feel any difference, despite all the internet hype, between that and the Duncan. In fact, I say the Duncan is better because of the eq but as stated before, you can add output eq in the Fractal. And good luck getting one fixed if it takes a dive.

Yeah I tried that and that part makes sense but switching effects between the two signal paths confuse the hell out of me. For context I am using the FC-12 for switching and I have not fully wrapped my head around the most effective layout but when disengaging or engaging effects I am only able to do that with one of the two signal paths.

While I dont plan on replacing the VHT 2/90, I do want to look at the duncan power stage alternative for when I have to drive to a jam space or whatever because I cannot lift my existing rack by myself lol. But it would also make my patch less complicated and straining on CPU, etc. I could also just leave the power amp modeling on for when I use a tube power amp and just eq the specific output but my goal was to try and get just the preamp and effects portion routed to the output going to amp/cab.

I thought I saw a video from Cooper Carter explaining how to do this and he did mention having to recreate the signal path but as far as controlling the effects between both signal paths to turn on and off simultaneously, I do not quite know. Either way the goal is to have stage sound with no plans of micing the cab so maybe just eq output 3 might be a better solution.

 

[axes]

TL;DR: I wouldn't.
My Fryette LXII sounds WORLDS better than my SD Powerstage or TC BAM pair, it's not even a fair fight by any means. If I'm completely honest though, since I've bought my pair of EV PXM-12MPs I'm not feeling the need to touch the Fryette and the guitar cabs.

 

[mlancaster1]

TL;DR: I wouldn't.
My Fryette LXII sounds WORLDS better than my SD Powerstage or TC BAM pair, it's not even a fair fight by any means. If I'm completely honest though, since I've bought my pair of EV PXM-12MPs I'm not feeling the need to touch the Fryette and the guitar cabs.

I've been looking into the EV PXM-12MPs after reading about them on this forum. Looks like an interesting setup, Im curious how I would like it in a jamming context with a loud drummer in the room.

 

[axes]

I've been looking into the EV PXM-12MPs after reading about them on this forum. Looks like an interesting setup, Im curious how I would like it in a jamming context with a loud drummer in the room.

Not out of my first hand experience as I'm a home player but from accounts in this forum people seem to really enjoy playing it next to loud drummers. 700 watts is plenty loud
The only thing I can attest to is actually being REALLY surprised at how much I like the tones coming out of them. I'm such an authentic guitar tone freak that I had to get the tube PA and 5 different 212 cabs to be able to at least somewhat cover the versatility the Axe can do. And since I have these I don't feel like turning that setup on. I'm not saying the tones I'm getting with the PXM-12MPs are 100% accurate and I'm not saying they're as visceral as a tube amp but they sound absolutely wonderful and I have to admit I'm beginning to like the tones better than with my LXII and cabs.

 

[squealie]

please report back when you decide.

I played a Marshall tube power amp for years with my earlier AxeFx stuff. Loved it. Power amp modelling on always.

I now use an old crown 350+ watt a side SS amp and am pretty happy. Wallop is key, and if I had a VHT amp like you, I would work it to death.

 

[luckymethod]

So I am considering switching to something like a power stage 700 watt amp for a couple of reasons.

I have this https://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/products/xls-1002 it's less than 9lbs and sounds great. You can get a more powerful model if you feel the need but I really have no clue what you would do with more than 350W rms per channel. I think the 700W claimed by the duncan are peak but could be wrong, their specs are a little sus and vague.