The Solution to the Biggest Tone Match Issue

Cooper Carter

Cooper Carter

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I've noticed that in almost every Tone Match thread on here, someone makes the comment that a tone sounds really good but lacks harmonic content and/or sustain. So in the end, the match doesn't sound as convincing as it could.

Here's an almost guaranteed solution to this issue that everyone should try before complaining that a patch doesn't sound good...


Turn up your volume!!!


Really. It's that simple. Crank it, people :)

And I'm not talking about the simulated Master Volume in the amp block, though it goes without saying that this is an incredibly important component of a tone.

Whether you're using a power amp/cab, power amp/FRFR, or powered FRFR, you have to, have to, have to keep in mind that 99.9999% of the time, the tones you like and are trying to recreate were recorded at a fairly high, if not incredibly, ear-splittingly loud volume. This goes for clean tones as well.

The TMA is amazing, and the modeling power of the Axe is absolutely insane, but these alone won't get you there as far as sustain goes if you're playing your guitar under headphones or at a bedroom volume. For that, there's really no substitute for cranking up.

So, in short, when running a tone match, you will be well served by running a "volume match" as well!
 
Thanks for the tip. I'll try it out. But then the AXE-FX will also have to include a neighbours matching feature and we'll have to share "Impulse Responses" of cool dudes.:D
 
PALYGAP said:
Thanks for the tip. I'll try it out. But then the AXE-FX will also have to include a neighbours matching feature and we'll have to share "Impulse Responses" of cool dudes.:D
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Just hit the time continuum pause button in the advanced params and the world is yours! :)
 
Edit: Did you mean turn up the volume in the chain before recording the local part? If so, then I take back what I said below.

nah, I don't agree with this. Turning up the volume is definitely fun but it also fools you into thinking it's good at all volumes. This type of approach will get you into trouble when going from bedroom to arena.

I think the core issue with TMA is that it requires proper source material to work. Often isolated tracks that sound good on their own aren't sufficient for a tone match b/c they don't cover enough of the spectrum for an entire song. It will never be perfect but I've found that you have to experiment with the source start/end and what you choose to play (and how hard you pick). Also, it's ideal if you do a KPA style match with the real amp and cab to play through if you're going after the raw core sound without any post processing.
 
I noticed on a recent Pete Thorn YT vid that when he did the Tone Match of his Suhr head using a Plexi amp block on the Axe that he didn't seem to have things turned up excessively loud - it's hard to tell I suppose - but he wasn't making involuntary blinks when playing the A/B comparisons so I'm guessing it was at comfortable volumes :)

He did however do some mojo on his IR captures using double mics to get a cab IR - adding VSTi plugins etc. The results were very very close - and a little tweaking on the Axe preset to replace a little low mids would make it 99.99% instead of the 99% he left it at for the vid.

I think it's more to do with quality during the capture and a certain amount of audio engineering related knowledge that gets the very best results. Good puttings in = Good puttings out as my mother would helpfully say as she watched me change my kids' nappies/diapers a few years back.

Having said that, it's also important to dial in presets using the volumes and amplification hardware that they will be used for - but maybe not at flat out studio 'loud room' volumes - stage volume definitely yes.
 
grape said:
Edit: Did you mean turn up the volume in the chain before recording the local part? If so, then I take back what I said below.

nah, I don't agree with this. Turning up the volume is definitely fun but it also fools you into thinking it's good at all volumes. This type of approach will get you into trouble when going from bedroom to arena.

I think the core issue with TMA is that it requires proper source material to work. Often isolated tracks that sound good on their own aren't sufficient for a tone match b/c they don't cover enough of the spectrum for an entire song. It will never be perfect but I've found that you have to experiment with the source start/end and what you choose to play (and how hard you pick). Also, it's ideal if you do a KPA style match with the real amp and cab to play through if you're going after the raw core sound without any post processing.
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I mean real, live, louder coming out of your speakers volume. Whether you do this in the chain or by turning up your powered monitors, I'm talking about real speaker-to-guitar sound wave interaction.

***Let's be clear, I'm not talking about this making a huge difference in the ACTUAL tone match process. There may be some small benefits, but the TMA will read the signal going into it either way.***

This was supposed to be simple advice. I'm talking about after you've made a match, if you're not hearing the same sustain and tonal complexity, just turn up your actual volume so there is more interaction between your guitar and amp.
 
grape said:
nah, I don't agree with this. Turning up the volume is definitely fun but it also fools you into thinking it's good at all volumes. This type of approach will get you into trouble when going from bedroom to arena.
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And I'm not sure what you mean here. Turning up the volume is definitely *not* what fools you into thinking a tone will be good at all volumes. Dialing in tones with the volume *down* does. Unless you mean that turning up the volume when dialing in will make it sound bad when you turn *back* down to bedroom levels...which it can.

But I don't really know anyone who is worried about how their tone will sound when they turn *down*... it's usually the other way around.

If you are worried about getting into trouble "when going from bedroom to arena," I'd recommend turning up. But If you're more concerned about going from arena to bedroom (?), keep doing what you're doing.
 
If in doubt, crank the mother. I agree with Mr. CC! His playing makes be a believer in ANYTHING he says!
 
To support what Cooper is saying, I have found that every time I make a tone match it sounds thin and measly until I add 10 dB to the tone match block.
 
I have to agree with grape.

Louder usually is perceived as fuller, better.
As little as 1dB can make that difference.
Of course it will sound better when you make it louder!
When you record it will be the same level in the end, though.

I thought you were talking about turning up the amp's master volume of the amp model (i.e. keeping the overall volume the same).
 
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