The problem / the solution

jcalama

Member
I have desperately wanted to weigh in on this but have avoided doing so until now...I cannot stay silent any longer

How precious life is, and how little time each of us has in an average day to do those things we love to do so much, whatever they may be (presumably, for many of you here, playing the guitar is at or near the top of the list).

The never-satisfied-till-I-have-the-shiniest-newest-bauble attitude that is openly on display here by so many is anathema to anyone who really stops to think about what gives you pleasure about playing the guitar. It is, of course, playing the guitar and hearing it sing. Feeling connected.

True, the Axe II can foster that connection because it sounds so good, but it will not give you something that is not already inside of you as a musician and an artist.

Worrying endlessly about being left out in the cold when the Axe II goes live for the great unwashed masses is not a matter of life and death. It is not a matter of whether or not you will get to continue drawing pleasure and inspiration from your music. If you have limited ability the Axe II won't make you a better player. If you have awesome ability, likely you are not too worried about whether or not you get an Axe II in this first, second or third run (especially if you already have something that you play through now and that you like) because you are probably busy honing your craft, woodshedding your chops or writing tunes.

Those who obsess over their F5 button are likely more obsessed with owning the newest thing and rattling off the details of their rig then they are with the business of actually putting pick or finger to string. Their attitudes are proof of this.

So, the problem is the culture of consumer madness, the never satisfied craving of wanting it to be better, faster and shinier and, most importantly, having it now, never considering how hard the Fractal team is working to manage the crappy attitudes of many here who feel entitled to a certain kind of treatment or level of care.

Let me be clear, Fractal owes nothing to anyone. They are a business like any other who produces a product that is either bought by its consumers or not. If you don't like the way they do business, either deal with it (because no one else can give you the awesomeness that the Axe II will no doubt be) or vote with your dollars and go buy something else. Whatever you decide, don't delude yourself into thinking that you have a right to dictate anything to Fractal about how things should be.

So that's the problem, what's the solution?

The solution is simple and pure, play your music, play with your kids, go for a walk and for the love of God, get involved with your life and give the F5 key a much needed rest.

Amen.
 
Sometime this summer I will leisurely order an Axe II. Knowing that gives me a warm glow inside. The A/B switching and USB are the killer features I've been wanting. My money is all set aside and there is no rush. Meantime I'll continue gigging and playing my Axe Standard, which has served and delighted me for 4 years (practically to the day!) and which sounds better than ever with 11.0 loaded.
 
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jcalama : I agree with you, but that won't change anything at this situation, therefore it's not a solution.

If there was a official set time everyday, when the axe-fx II would be available in the yahoo store, then people would only have to hit F5 for 90 seconds and live their life on the rest of the day.
 
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I have desperately wanted to weigh in on this but have avoided doing so until now...I cannot stay silent any longer

How precious life is, and how little time each of us has in an average day to do those things we love to do so much, whatever they may be (presumably, for many of you here, playing the guitar is at or near the top of the list).

The never-satisfied-till-I-have-the-shiniest-newest-bauble attitude that is openly on display here by so many is anathema to anyone who really stops to think about what gives you pleasure about playing the guitar. It is, of course, playing the guitar and hearing it sing. Feeling connected.

True, the Axe II can foster that connection because it sounds so good, but it will not give you something that is not already inside of you as a musician and an artist.

Worrying endlessly about being left out in the cold when the Axe II goes live for the great unwashed masses is not a matter of life and death. It is not a matter of whether or not you will get to continue drawing pleasure and inspiration from your music. If you have limited ability the Axe II won't make you a better player. If you have awesome ability, likely you are not too worried about whether or not you get an Axe II in this first, second or third run (especially if you already have something that you play through now and that you like) because you are probably busy honing your craft, woodshedding your chops or writing tunes.

Those who obsess over their F5 button are likely more obsessed with owning the newest thing and rattling off the details of their rig then they are with the business of actually putting pick or finger to string. Their attitudes are proof of this.

So, the problem is the culture of consumer madness, the never satisfied craving of wanting it to be better, faster and shinier and, most importantly, having it now, never considering how hard the Fractal team is working to manage the crappy attitudes of many here who feel entitled to a certain kind of treatment or level of care.

Let me be clear, Fractal owes nothing to anyone. They are a business like any other who produces a product that is either bought by its consumers or not. If you don't like the way they do business, either deal with it (because no one else can give you the awesomeness that the Axe II will no doubt be) or vote with your dollars and go buy something else. Whatever you decide, don't delude yourself into thinking that you have a right to dictate anything to Fractal about how things should be.

So that's the problem, what's the solution?

The solution is simple and pure, play your music, play with your kids, go for a walk and for the love of God, get involved with your life and give the F5 key a much needed rest.

Amen.

I agree with most of what you said, although it came across as fairly self-riteous and preachy, but maybe that wasn't meant.

The one thing that puzzles me is that Cliff has done an incredible job of inventing, developing, supporting and improving his product, but comes across as unapproachable when it comes to suggestions or ideas on the distribution/sales end of things. He's been extremely receptive to product ideas and many of us have voiced ideas that have actually been implemented into later firmwares etc. This shows he has a strong desire to improve his product and give customers the best product possible. This forum has, since the beginning, been an excellent resource for Fractal to see what his customers like, don't like and would like in the future in regards to the Axefx. I have seen all the same whiney, self-entitled posts you have, but there have also been some with very legitimate suggestions brought up in regards to possible improvements in the ordering process that were scorned as bitching or whining by some. It really doesn't matter if you're in the camp of "I'll get mine when I get mine" or the "I want and deserve to have it now", I find it hard to believe that many would agree that the current process of ordering, or trying to order, is the best system that could be in place.
Does anyone OWE it to us to improve upon the ordering process? Of course not. Would it likely be a good idea and reduce a huge amount of the drama that's been present here lately? You bet. This is just another suggestion just like requesting a new kind of delay or global amp control and since the beginning of this forum, suggestions and ideas have been largely welcomed and acted upon. Does that mean anyone is entitled? Nope! It's just another suggestion that shouldn't receive any more criticism than one suggesting Cliff model a new botique amp.
There will always be spoiled, little brats who grew up to be spoiled little men and women. That's just a fact. What is also a fact is that when a company has a lot of customers frustrated with the ordering process, it is probably a sign of an area that could be improved upon. Considering how well Cliff has supported and improved his product in every other category, it wouldn't suprise me one bit to see an improved ordering process in place in the future. Are we entitled to one or owed one? Nope.

In other words...focus on how the system could be improved for the general customer base and forget the comments and expectations from spoiled, self-entitled brats.

That's my version of problem/solution.

cheers,
Steve
 
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The problem is that there are a lot of things involved in getting these things out that are fluid meaning that specific times and estimates aren't always possible or accurate.

But the biggest issue to me is that regardless of what he says or how he says it (i.e., we're hoping to get them out next week) is always going to be met with a million other questions and complaints.

He's building them as fast as he can. It isn't a problem with the store front or how he puts them up there, it's about supply and demand pure and simple. There are only two solutions here, learn to be patient and get one when it's available by checking regularly without the obsession (because it's unhealthy and pointless) or he has to invent a way to make them faster. At this point I don't see option two happening.

There is absolutely NO POINT AT ALL in getting upset about things that are outside of your control. Focus on what you can take care of or do and learn to deal with external influences without it causing undue stress.

Perhaps someone can come up with a sticky thread where people can post when they're out for the day. I don't see him putting them in the storefront multiple times throughout the course of the day. Once they're gone for the day then resume normal activities.

And no I am not trying to be all preachy and condescending or self-righteous here; it's just friendly advice from someone who wasted a lot of time through the years worrying about stuff that was out of my hands. It makes you miserable which makes everyone around you miserable and even if it's just for one day that is one day that you don't get back. Why spend it being pissed off? It won't change a thing in a positive way no matter how frustrated or angry you let it get you.
 
I'm cool that Cliff wants to release a daily trickle thru the Yahoo site. That's what works best for him and keeps things simple. As far as having it now, well....if I'm a crazy enough MF'er to sit there all day F5'ing the store, then I DO deserve to have one of the first II's (provided Cliff does release product thru that outlet, which I don't think happened today).
 
Everyone is making some valid points, but for those of us who are "playing the game" and F5'ing the sh!t out of the Yahoo store- well I'm gonna be more than a little frustrated if and when I give up and someone randomly at a later time hits jackpot and gets one after "all of my hard work and dedication." I know all of this sounds childish, but I'd like to think my efforts could pay off if I'm persistent enough.
 
The one thing that puzzles me is that Cliff has done an incredible job of inventing, developing, supporting and improving his product, but comes across as unapproachable when it comes to suggestions or ideas on the distribution/sales end of things.

Because it's his business, not yours. It's nobody's place to tell Cliff how to run his show. He's not receptive to those ideas because he isn't asking anyone on the forums for suggestions or ideas for distribution and sales. If you want to implement those ideas, build your own company or get a job with a company in a relevant role. Fractal Audio isn't obligated to operate to the liking of forum users. Why do people think Cliff's time is better spent discussing the philosophy of his business strategy than it would be getting the product out the door?

The Axe II isn't some piece of divination handed down from the clouds that people have a right to buy or own. People need to stop pretending that they play a role in running the company. It's a black box. Life is bigger than this. The OP does give a solution; it's a solution that relieves all sides of stress.
 
Because it's his business, not yours. It's nobody's place to tell Cliff how to run his show.

It seems to me that He doesn't like the show either, so no surprise, that many people here are just trying to help with the suggestions as they were with the product.
 
Because it's his business, not yours. It's nobody's place to tell Cliff how to run his show. He's not receptive to those ideas because he isn't asking anyone on the forums for suggestions or ideas for distribution and sales. If you want to implement those ideas, build your own company or get a job with a company in a relevant role. Fractal Audio isn't obligated to operate to the liking of forum users. Why do people think Cliff's time is better spent discussing the philosophy of his business strategy than it would be getting the product out the door?

The Axe II isn't some piece of divination handed down from the clouds that people have a right to buy or own. People need to stop pretending that they play a role in running the company. It's a black box. Life is bigger than this. The OP does give a solution; it's a solution that relieves all sides of stress.

You missed my point entirely. It was his business when he took tons of forum members' ideas and suggestions and made them parts of future firmware updates. To my knowledge, he never said, "hey guys, my Axefx just isn't good enough and please give me some ideas". No. He just obviously kept close tabs on the pulse of the forum and what features, people were asking for. I really don't think he applied so many of these ideas/suggestions because he felt he owed it to anyone. I suspect it had much more to do with the possibility that wanted his product to be the best he could make it.
The point you missed is that a lot of people have said things like, "hey, it'd be cool if we had a model of amp X" so there's really no need for you or anyone else to get bent out of shape when someone offers another idea that they think would be cool. ....like, "hey, it'd be cool if I could just put a deposit down or get on a waiting list and know that mine has been ordered". It's just an idea and/or a suggestion like so many before. He doesn't owe it to anyone to apply that idea, but your post is really just condemning anyone giving yet another suggestion as to how to make the Axefx experience more "cool". You may not agree, but if you posted that you'd like a new delay or a new feature on the MFC, how would you feel if someone just told you to start up your own company if that's what you want. Go build your own MFC if you want that feature! That's not the culture that has been here on this forum since the beginning and that's one reason that Fractal users ARE so faithful to that little piece of gear. Cliff cares, listens and when it's a good and do-able idea, he implements the idea.
Context and tone are hard to convey on a forum so maybe that's why you didn't get my point. Hopefully this will help you with your interpretation. :)

cheers,
Steve
 
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Because it's his business, not yours. It's nobody's place to tell Cliff how to run his show.

Wrong. Customers can say whatever they want, they are a part of the business relationship. It is his prerogative not to listen.
 
It was his business when he took tons of forum members' ideas and suggestions and made them parts of future firmware updates. To my knowledge, he never said, "hey guys, my Axefx just isn't good enough and please give me some ideas".

A couple of points... (1) Cliff never had to do that. He was very generous with his time to even listen and then take his own time and code those improvements which he doesn't make a dime off of because he gives them out for free. That alone should earn the highest degree of respect; and (2) in the beginning there were very polite requests in the Wish List threads "Cliff could you do this." The degree of whining was non-existant.

Over time I think the "legend" grew and people that came to the forum didn't always ask so nicely. The demanded as if they were entitled to have their ideas implemented in the firmware. And for some people that has now extended to business practices. And the tone of those suggestions... and perhaps something is lost in reading or artificially heightened with the recent tension... has gotten progressively worse IMO.

This is a post made by Cliff on GearSlutz in '-4

I started the company a few years ago after getting fed up with corporate America.

So I quit, took my life savings and bought a bunch of test equipment, computers, software and various vintage amplifiers and set out to create the best modeler / effects unit I could because I thought the time was right and the tech was ready to do it right. I averaged over 100 hours a week for 3 1/2 years developing the Axe-Fx. I developed tendonitis from writing so much code. The unit has nearly 50,000 lines of software and countless hours of analysis that have gone into it. The modeling was done with painstaking detail.

I do it because I love it. I'm not in it to make a killing and then disappear. My fiance' and I live a very modest lifestyle and aren't into the whole material possesions thing. Fractal Audio is a way for me to do what I love and make a modest living. For me happiness is creating something and witnessing the satisfaction others derive from it. I simply don't want to compete with the big guys because that means selling an inferior product. The Axe-Fx is what I as a guitarist have always wanted. I use it in my crappy little cover band and I have a blast with it and get tons of compliments on my tone.

To me the reasons why he's made the Axe-FX and everything else since then deserve mad respect. In my book that means backing off, being patient, and let him do things how he wants to do them. Nobody else has made a rig-in-a box that the Axe's capabilities and quality.

I just don't get how people justify things based on them being the customer. The customer is always right blah, blah, blah. That is very easy to just throw out there to justify some of the stuff and the way that stuff has been said. Take some of that tone and try that to the waitstaff at a restaurant and tell you food doesn't taste funny when it gets served to you.
 
Increasing production has associated headaches that perhaps Cliff is not willing or wanting to endure. Everybody is assuming that he is in this for the $ but the way I read it, Cliff wants to eat, stay warm, have some extra $ for simple pleasures and gets the most of his self-fulfillment from his inventions and not the $. I read posts here and on TGP being openly critical of Cliff as a business man but they all appear to be made from a purely self serving point of view "I can't get what I want right now therefore FAS has a stupid business model." Brutal.
 
A couple of points... (1) Cliff never had to do that. He was very generous with his time to even listen and then take his own time and code those improvements which he doesn't make a dime off of because he gives them out for free. That alone should earn the highest degree of respect; and (2) in the beginning there were very polite requests in the Wish List threads "Cliff could you do this." The degree of whining was non-existant.

Over time I think the "legend" grew and people that came to the forum didn't always ask so nicely. The demanded as if they were entitled to have their ideas implemented in the firmware. And for some people that has now extended to business practices. And the tone of those suggestions... and perhaps something is lost in reading or artificially heightened with the recent tension... has gotten progressively worse IMO.

This is a post made by Cliff on GearSlutz in '-4



To me the reasons why he's made the Axe-FX and everything else since then deserve mad respect. In my book that means backing off, being patient, and let him do things how he wants to do them. Nobody else has made a rig-in-a box that the Axe's capabilities and quality.

I just don't get how people justify things based on them being the customer. The customer is always right blah, blah, blah. That is very easy to just throw out there to justify some of the stuff and the way that stuff has been said. Take some of that tone and try that to the waitstaff at a restaurant and tell you food doesn't taste funny when it gets served to you.

First off, nothing in my posts said or implied the customer is always right and Cliff should this or that. People can have "mad respect" for Cliff AND still post ideas and suggestions on this forum for things like feature requests, new amp models...and yes, even ideas for streamlining the ordering process. No one needs to get defensive or spin words to change the context or meaning. We all know there were a number of people "whining" about anything and everything in regards to the Axe2 availability, but there were also a number of people simply and calmly giving their 2 cents on how the ordering could be possibly improved upon. That's no different than someone saying, "Hey, the Ultra is way cool, but would it be possible to have an Engl SE amp model?"
You come across like it's taboo to offer ideas and suggestions when that's what this forum has been about since the start. Cliff isn't obligated to read or listen to any of us, but it's not for YOU, or anyone else, to say the ideas and suggestions need to stop. You can still say it, but like Cliff, we can choose to listen or not to what you have to say.

Lastly, many companies spend big money paying for market studies and customer feedback surveys etc to see how they can improve. Fractal doesn't have to do that because this forum gives them more....and I repeat...MORE than enough feedback to have a firm grasp of the customers' opinions and ideas. No one can take credit for what the Axefx has evolved into except Cliff and Fractal, but it'd be naive to think that the ideas, comments and contributions of some forum members haven't played some role in it's evolution. No one, no matter how genius, knows it all and can see things from every perspective so please don't try and discourage the sharing of ideas and suggestions here because at least some of them contributed to making the Axefx as cool as it is.
If someone says, "Hey, it'd be cool to be able to put a deposit down and get in line for an Axe2", it's just another of many ideas thrown in the kitty here. He can use the idea or not, but it's not your place to try and censor the idea to begin with.

cheers,
Steve
 
You come across like it's taboo to offer ideas and suggestions when that's what this forum has been about since the start.

It was not my intention to come off like it is taboo to offer ideas and suggestions. Its the people that offer their ideas/suggestions with that sense of entitlement that need to check their attitude at the door.

I appreciate that people have shared their real world experience and where they thought things could be better have asked for it (in a respectful manner) and that Cliff has incorporated them into the firmware. It makes the product that we bought better. What I wonder about... (worry about ?) ...is there some threshold - the straw that breaks the camels back - that Cliff says enough and stops listening and incorporating things.
 
I just feel bad for Cliff because of all of the hostility involved here. He gets enough crap from all the detractors who buy all the other stuff out there and feel compelled to attack him and his products.

The guy has a unique product and his own business model and that's part of the luxury and headache that it incurs. If you want blister pack bulk crap that once you buy it you never get an update and it's replaced before it even works properly there are Guitar Centers all over the country. What Fractal Audio and Cliff in particular delivers is unique and unparalleled and I have a feeling that once you start changing the way he does things that it starts to become prohibitive to do what it is that we all love. There's no way that you bring in a crew without bringing in marketing and management and once all the bean counters come into play the bottom line moves, corners are cut and R&D is moving towards a new product every year rather than creating a platform with a lifespan that allows the creator to add to it over the course of years in regular intervals. You go from new amps every few months to having to buy an upgrade pack or in the worst case the new box. That's how it works in bulk quantities....hell we didn't even talk about the extra overhead and the cost that would end up being added to each unit.

Just relax. It's a completely new product from the ground up being delivered here. There are going to be some bumps in the road and anyone who's ever bought a first run product should know that. It's not like he's holding out or discriminating against anyone here; he builds as many as he can in a day's time and puts them up for sale so that he can make sure that they get out the door the next day. What part of that is so outrageous or irrational?

As for waiting lists there are already two places that offer that right now; Tone Merchants and G66. Those are the two authorized distributors and they are more than happy to take your orders and put you on the list. But let's face it, you don't want to be on a list which is why the label on your F5 key is worn off. :razz

You took a gamble and bet on yourself to be able to beat out everyone else that's trying to snag one in the first week. You need to give yourself a pep talk and get re-motivated.
 
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