Tech21 Power Engine?Last ditch effort before Fractomic ships

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Gasp100

Power User
So I'm gearing up towards the shipping of the Fractomic FRFR, but the price point still hits a little deep. I would be overextending myself a bit to get it, but I know that the AxeFX IS the answer for me. I tried the Verve 12ma and I really liked it, but the wedge form factor was not my favorite and I still feel it's not a perfect fit for the AxeFX.
Anyway, I have never tried the Tech21 PE. I'm wondering if I were to grab one of these on the cheap and replace the speaker, how close could I get to a nice AxeFX + power amp + guitar cab rig? I was pretty happy using both the Art SLA-1 and TubeWorks Mosfet with previous AxeFX's. Wouldn't the Tech21 PE with an upgraded speaker (I currently have an 8ohm, 55 watt Silver Bell Alnico which I really dig; it sounds great in most applications, stays pretty clean and neutral as far as guitar speakers go with a nicer top end) or something like an EV12L basically be a more compact and simple AxeFX -> power amp -> guitar cab rig? Or, is the power amp so bad in the PE or the overal cab design so bad that it's not a good move to even try.
I know I'm trying to fit things into a budget, but things are tight as usual. Thoughts?
 
I use Power Engines with my Axe and like them just fine, especially considering that I got them used and laid out only $400 for the pair.

They're absolutely not FRFR, the response is wide enough that I can use cab sims, and the response is flat enough that presets created while monitoring through them sound great through FOH (we usually run with a Mackie/Yamaha/Yamaha PA). Mind you, they sound different through FOH because of the different response curve, but I've only received compliments on my tone from ears in the crowd.

One of the biggest appeals to me is the aesthetic. I really like have the look of a traditional rig fed by the power of the AxeFx. You can see pics of my rig by following the link in my signature.

And again, for the money you'll likely spend when compared to any of the leading FRFR choices, I'd recommend them. Maybe down the road I'll re-address my on-stage monitoring, but for now the PE's get the job done and make me a happy guitar player.
 
+1 to the above. I had a couple until recently. They're definitely not FRFR, but they sound very nice, and I found it very easy to dial in good tones with them
 
Thanks guys, I think I might have to try one (or two) of these out soon. The price is right, I have a few different guitar speakers I can try out (looks like it's a simple swap out just like any traditional guitar cab?) and they look cool and are compact enough.
 
I had a chance to try one a little while back as they were intended to be (a reasonably flat amplification device) and I was not impressed at all. If you put a guitar speaker in it and just use it as a cab (meaning you can't take advantage of the cab block in the Axe-FX), it will probably work pretty well.

I like the ability to change cabs between patches, so I'm an FRFR guy all the way. I thought the PE was terrible for that, but just used as a traditional cab it can't be that bad.

I just use an FRFR monitor as a monitor and let the FOH do the real work, so I'm not too picky. I have no problem using a Mackie SRM or a Yamaha Club series if I have to. Even given that, I wouldn't use the PE. I just didn't like it at all, but YMMV.

D
 
Gasp100 said:
Thanks guys, I think I might have to try one (or two) of these out soon. The price is right, I have a few different guitar speakers I can try out (looks like it's a simple swap out just like any traditional guitar cab?) and they look cool and are compact enough.
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I thought about replacing the speaker, but had second thoughts when I considered that there might be some DSP in the power section that attempts to smooth out the response of the stock Seventy/80. Does anyone with access to a reference mic have the ability to measure the response of the combination?

Another thought I had was to add the tweeter that Tech21 supposedly still offers (and obviously a suitable crossover). But that could cause more harm than good if there is indeed DSP in the amp.
 
The Celestion 70/80 is absolutely not a flat speaker by any stretch of the imagination at all. Its a decent sounding inexpensive guitar speaker and maybe its possible that Tech 21 did some wizardry with the cabinet design to flatten the speaker, but I doubt it.

I once did a mini shootout of about eight speakers including the 70/80 and it easily won against other much more expensive speakers because I thought it was tonally very similar at a fraction of the price. The price benefit has since been eroded, but I like and still use them as guitar speakers from when they cost me $28USD each.

I wouldn't expect that cabinet with that speaker to be any different than any other guitar cabinet and speaker- it might be usable with cab sims if you build the patch around it, but thats a guitar speaker to be sure.

For that matter, it makes sense that Tech 21 would use a guitar speaker because the sansamp stuff sounds awful into a full range setup without copious amounts of EQ. Not bad into a guitar cabinet...
 
Chris Hurley said:
The Celestion 70/80 is absolutely not a flat speaker by any stretch of the imagination at all. Its a decent sounding inexpensive guitar speaker and maybe its possible that Tech 21 did some wizardry with the cabinet design to flatten the speaker, but I doubt it.

I once did a mini shootout of about eight speakers including the 70/80 and it easily won against other much more expensive speakers because I thought it was tonally very similar at a fraction of the price. The price benefit has since been eroded, but I like and still use them as guitar speakers from when they cost me $28USD each.

I wouldn't expect that cabinet with that speaker to be any different than any other guitar cabinet and speaker- it might be usable with cab sims if you build the patch around it, but thats a guitar speaker to be sure.

For that matter, it makes sense that Tech 21 would use a guitar speaker because the sansamp stuff sounds awful into a full range setup without copious amounts of EQ. Not bad into a guitar cabinet...
Click to expand...

No wizardry was done with the cab design and the result is far from flat or full.

Sansamp stuff sounds awful into full range gear without EQ? I don't know what Sansamp you used or if it might have been broken or something, but that is far from my experience with them. I've found them to get great tones with little or no fuss at all. My experience is mainly with the Tri-AC, but I've never had to do much board EQ with it. The built in EQ is extremely powerful and has always produced the results I'm looking for. They're different to dial in than traditional rigs, so the instruction manual is quite helpful to understand how to tweak them. They're no Axe-FX, but they are great in their own right IMO. I wouldn't mind using one into a FRFR setup if I didn't have an Axe-FX.

D
 
I've been using a Power Wedge 60 for about 6 months while getting used to the Axe Fx and waiting for their solution to come out. I don't think that it's the best solution for all the Axe has to offer, but for the $ ($200 used in perfect shape), it's been good for me. I'm not trying to get 4 x 12 metal tones. I'm getting total clean jazz up to medium gain driven tones and I've gotten some really good sounds. Good enough that I've not been gigging with a 58 Tweed Deluxe and MusicMan 2-10 Sixty Five plus pedals setup.

I'm still not entirely happy with the clean into edgy sounds, but for the higher gain end of what I'm doing I'm able to get gainy sounds at a reasonable volume better than ever.

The Power Wedges are very easy to use, are super light and relatively loud for my situations, but as I said, no metal volumes for me. Also, I'm mostly running the Fender, Mesa or Voxish models at fairly moderate gains levels plus drive pedals, emulating cleanish amp plus OD/Rat setup.

I've been running an fx send pre cab and running the Power Wedge off Output 2, I have power amp sim, but no cabinet. Then in places where guitar's in the PA I hook a mic cable into Output 1 with cab sim on, usually the 2 x 12 Fender type (haven't been able to load user IRs yet for some reason that I haven't figured out yet).

I look forward to hearing reports on the Fractomic and will likely get one or 2 of those shortly if they're as great as they're likely to be, but the Power Wedge has been a very functional reasonable priced solution.

As Scott P. is likely to say, YMMV.


PS. I agree about the utility of Tech 21 stuff. Not Axe quality, but particularly for the clean to slightly gainy stuff I like them better than most digital modelers I've owned.

Mike
 
dk_ace said:
Sansamp stuff sounds awful into full range gear without EQ? I don't know what Sansamp you used or if it might have been broken or something, but that is far from my experience with them.
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Lets see... rackmount sansamp... two different PSA-1's, two different tri-ac's, one GT-2, one Trademark 60.

They're cool because they are flexible, but the high end sounds like a direct box. Run it through a cab sim and you get in the ballpark.

I still like them, and I still own my rackmount sansamp, but for distorted sounds, they sound awful without some sort of cab sim. I guess you could kill all the highs and get rid of the direct-box fizz...
 
I use a PE60 from time to time with what I think are pretty good results. I do not think the redwirez ir's play very well with it, though because there is not the option of not using a mic with those ir's (although I do understand that even Cliff's ir's are an earthworks measurement mic when set to "none", so technically still a mic.)

The Power Engine sounds best to me with the "old" bassman ir and no mic.

Here is a video I made with the Axe/PE60 combination:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOYtYg0g_DQ

There are a couple more if you check my youtube channel.

matt
 
Chris Hurley said:
[quote="dk_ace":39tmi9ci]
Sansamp stuff sounds awful into full range gear without EQ? I don't know what Sansamp you used or if it might have been broken or something, but that is far from my experience with them.
Click to expand...

Lets see... rackmount sansamp... two different PSA-1's, two different tri-ac's, one GT-2, one Trademark 60.

They're cool because they are flexible, but the high end sounds like a direct box. Run it through a cab sim and you get in the ballpark.

I still like them, and I still own my rackmount sansamp, but for distorted sounds, they sound awful without some sort of cab sim. I guess you could kill all the highs and get rid of the direct-box fizz...[/quote:39tmi9ci]

The Sansamp (at least the Tri-AC) has cabinet simulation already built in (check the manual). The EQ is active which is a different beast and a source of trouble for some. Also, they model Marshalls in such a way that the drive has to be passed noon to not sound terrible. Those two things throw people for a loop sometimes.

Honestly, the Tri-AC is one of the easiest devices I've ever seen to get a great sound running direct. I've run more complicated ones (involving load boxes and Palmer speaker sims), and I still recommend the Sansamp to a lot of people. It sounds like you went through a lot of them, so I have no idea why you couldn't get a good tone out of them, but there are plenty of players who can make them sound fantastic.

I'll take my Axe-FX anyday, but to say the sansamp sounds like you're using a direct signal with no cab modeling is ludicrous. Maybe you sounded terrible with them, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the sansamp is to blame. I've heard some bad Axe-FX clips out there, and those aren't the Axe-FXs fault either. It's up to us to make them sing.

D
 
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