Teach me about FRFR

P

peerhan

Member
I'm completely happy with my Axe FX II. In fact, owning one has turned me into quite the fractal evangelist. However, when I'm not playing somewhere with a sound system, things obviously don't work out very well. Because of this, I think I'm interested in a FRFR powered speaker.

Would somebody teach me about FRFR speakers and what uncommon things I should expect? Also, would you mind making suggestions on which ones I should look at? Right now I'm looking at the Atomic powered speaker.

Thanks!
 
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Funny... I said "uncommon things I should expect"... that doesn't make sense. :cry

Because nobody has bitten yet, and because it's probably that my question was too broad, let me be more specific:

I've read the Fractal provided documentation on FRFR, and some explanatory posts on this forum. I know what it is, and why you'd do it. I suppose I have only two things that I'd like somebody to speak into:

1. Which speakers are revered? Any reason to avoid the powered Atomic cab?

2. My goal is to continue DI'ing to FOH, but I'd like to have some quality stage volume, and also, I'd like to have a speaker to lug around for practice spaces that don't have SR. If this is my goal, how would I achieve this within the patches on the Axe FX II? The provided documentation listed some output scenarios, none of which are what I want to do. It assumed that if I was using FRFR that I was going to mic it, I guess (no FOH send). And another scenario assumed I wanted to use a non-FRFR speaker as stage volume with my simultaneous FOH send. In that scenario, it instructed me to set up a parallel route, without cab simulation, ending in an FX-loop - makes sense, but not exactly what I want to do. SO, answer me this: Would best practice for my situation be to run to FOH with my main LR outputs, and then to adopt the fx-loop idea but keep the cab simulation and nix the mic simulation and whatever blocks creating unwanted stereo imaging? (to make it more closely mimic a guitar amp)

Am I crazy?
 
There are tons of thread about them and I'm guessing that's why nobody's bit. The topic comes up and we rehash favs. My current fav is RCF NX10-SMA (have a pair) or NX12 (had one, but sold to get pair of 10s). They sound fantastic, are coaxial, are super light, have a ton of headroom and sound good for whatever style. They're not cheap, but they're not absurd either. Get them from audiopyle.com. Much cheaper than what you'll see at Full Compass for instance.
There's a new solution coming out, also coaxial, from Atomic, designed by Jay Mitchell. A few people heard them at Dallas Axe gathering. You could search Dallas and read about that. My guess is they'll be awesome.

Other than that, it's wide open. Some people love Atomics. I liked mine, but ultimately, it was too big and heavy and liked to be cranked. People who've had the Atomic have left and loved the RCF. I love my RCF. If the new Atomic is better, we'll all be happy, because the RCF blows away the current Atomic, the Mackie 450 (original ones), RCF 310A's and Tech 21 Power Wedge 60s I used previously. The Atomic will be heavier by almost 20 lbs than my RCF NX10 (32lbs), so it's going to have to be a good bit better to make me carry that much weight.
 
I personally don't like the Atomics. It's all a matter of taste. However, look into the fEARFULL spec, created by 'greenboy' - this is a family of cabinet designs, with very specifically-selected drivers, horns and crossovers, for Bass players. So, why am I recomending it? Because it is actually an FRFR system, but one cabable of producing very low findamentals. Ideal for keys, bass and Guitar. it's like a studio monitor crossed with a big, beefy, flat PA system WITH subwoofer. And, if you get one from this guy: Art of Noise fEARFULL Bass Enclosures you will also get incredible rigidity coupled with INCREDIBLE light weight. I have used Mackie powered speakers (450's) as my FRFRs - and I consider them VASTLY superior to using my Ultra or II with any of the guitar cabs I own. But the problem with active speaks is they can rattle when they're loud - especially with one resonant note from a guitar vs. the broad-spectrum sound they're designed for. So I bought a matrix amp for the rack, and I'm getting a 12/6/1 fEARFULL enclosure made. They're LOUD. They're ACCURATE. They're friggin LIGHT. Cheers
 
HughJasol said:
I guess the only question left is whether Mike is running this business out of his garage or out of his basement . . .
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That may well be right, but the consequence is that all the money you'd otherwise spend keeping a fancy roof over his head and advertising his services gets to stay in your pocket. He is absolutely worth dealing with unless you like throwing $ away.

And, if you were an independent distributor, why would you want it any other way? I think if he's getting a new shipment of stuff into the country and he can ship it directly to you rather than warehouse it first, he does that, too. That totally works for me. By cutting out all the layers between me and the product, he's able to save customers a lot of $, still make something for himself and get things where they need to be more quickly.

I also had an instance where I was sent the wrong cover for my speaker and he handled it immediately. I had the new cover within a couple of days Then he sent me a UPS label to ship the old one back. No problem. The original recommendation to use him comes from Scott Peterson who has dealt with him and highly recommended him.
 
HughJasol said:
Hmmm . . . their "website" consists of a bunch of manufacturer links, and then a "Contact mike@audiopyle.com , 707-315-6204". I guess the only question left is whether Mike is running this business out of his garage or out of his basement . . .
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According to this:

Driving Directions - Audiopyle Sound-Events And Sales - Napa, CA

His business is at 520 California Blvd Napa, CA

According to this:

520 California Blvd. #7, Napa, CA, 94558 - Warehouse Property for Lease on LoopNet.com

That address is a warehouse renting at $13.50 sq/ft

I'd venture to say this is where he lives:

http://www.whitepages.com/name/Michael-G-Pyle/Napa-CA/2x91fz5
 
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Actually that was meant half-jokingly . . . I guess should have added a ":lol". But the website really didn't give me a warm and fuzzy, that's all.
 
This brings up the a question I've been wondering about for a while -

Does anyone make a powered FRFR cab similar to the atomic (or not), either stereo or mono, that has a 2U space to install the axe-fx (II)? It would be way more convenient for me to carry something like a traditional amp rather than my monitor and rack separately.

Something like those SWR bass amps that have a 1U space for tuners, effects, etc.
 
gdgross said:
This brings up the a question I've been wondering about for a while -

Does anyone make a powered FRFR cab similar to the atomic (or not), either stereo or mono, that has a 2U space to install the axe-fx (II)? It would be way more convenient for me to carry something like a traditional amp rather than my monitor and rack separately.

Something like those SWR bass amps that have a 1U space for tuners, effects, etc.
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I haven't seen any that are mass market but I have seen them custom built. PM Mick at XiTone Ill bet he would build you something to your liking.
 
I have been using a pair of QSC K8 Powered Monitors as my FR-FR.
They aren't cheap, but I picked up a set on eBay for under $1200 with Covers.
Plus you figure after buying a $2200+ unit, why treat them to cheap Monitors...
I have found it best to set these to "Flat" (Obviously...) and I switch it to External Sub, even though I don't have the Sub...
The Great thing about the FR-FR is it sounds exactly like my 2 Channels on my PA which are both Flat EQ.

So if I am on Stage and Hear too much Bass or Treble in a Patch, I know when I tweak it that it will sound the Same out to the Audience.

I picked the K8 over the K10 or K12 after researching the Forums.
One Nice thing is that the K8 has a Wider Angle of Sound Coverage because of the 8" Speaker.
I use one to side wash the Stage so the Drummer and Bass Player can Hear.
The 2nd One I use as a Floor Monitor (requires a #10 Bolt to use as Floor Monitor, saw that trick on Youtube)
There are 2 Inputs so I run the Axe and our "Vocal Aux" Chain to the 2nd Input and there is a "Gain" setting for Each.

This setup ran plenty of Times a Practice and Just Last Saturday at our First Gig after taking some time off due to Work of all things...
 
Sixstring said:
I haven't seen any that are mass market but I have seen them custom built. PM Mick at XiTone Ill bet he would build you something to your liking.
Click to expand...

Thanks, just sent them an email - anyone know of any other options? I imagine this thing would be expensive...powered x7 cab was $800 by itself, not counting all my mods to cram in an axe-II
 
How *you* like or don't like any particular powered speaker makes it difficult on a forum to describe. That is why there are many love / hate threads for the same speakers.

Here is some of what I've gotten over the past year or so, all IMO:

- There are tiers of pricing, < 500$US, > 500 < 1000$, over 1000$US, big boi (aka you are touring and you get to play through Clair brother's custom boxes and Meyer sound and we are all jealous).

- Price matters in that your choice will be determined by where your budget falls.

- There are few to none truly flat frequency and phase response speakers < 1000$US.

- The as-yet-to-be-released Atom CLR powered speaker might prove to be outstanding. The designer is one of the foremost experts on speaker design anywhere. This should come in under 1000 or right at it per speaker. It promises to be truly flat.

Richard
 
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