Tactics for doubling / thickening stereo sound live when only 1 guitarist

If you have multiple IRs in the Cab block, especially with multiple Cab blocks, pay attention to their alignment and be listening as you make adjustments. They can make or break the sound because of phasing issues.

Leon (calling @2112) might have ideas too. Ragdoll is a trio and he gets a huge sound.
 
There were some issues with certain Mimiqs that caused them to not work correctly and effect the tone also. From what I rememebr it was a firmware issue and the only resolution was to send it back. I learned this because the Mimiq I bought didn't work right and also effected the tone in a bad way. I sent it back and never tried one again. But I also don't want to use any pedals. I'm trying to have a clean and small a setup as possible.
 
Really enjoying this thread reading the ideas.

I'm pretty happy with using a pitch block pan L/R detune and just play with how many -CT and how many +CT so it sounds like a double-track but not so far off it sounds like a chorus.
 
The last thing I would want to be doing with my live sound is introducing comb filtering and phase issues by diliberately misusing the haas effect. What a thoroughly terrible idea.
 
Orvillain said:
The last thing I would want to be doing with my live sound is introducing comb filtering and phase issues by diliberately misusing the haas effect. What a thoroughly terrible idea.
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I've been down this road before. If you want everyone to have a good experience, mono is the way, unless you have two separate guitar players. Stereo is cool for IEMs. but I find live I'm not thinking about ping pong delays or panning for a guitar break, I'm just feeding off the energy from the crowd and trying not to screw up lol
 
Cooper Carter said:
Copy the pitch block out of the Petrucci Rig factory preset.
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Thank you!
Will this trick create the same effect with a mono setup? I never run stereo for a number of reasons. I've tried it, I feel like this block stays on my main preset, but I'm not sure if I feel like I hear this "double guitar" thing, more like an improved EVH-esque tone now.
Will any trick of this sort, like Enhancer etc., work with a mono setup?

UPD. Will it work on FM3 at all? In the screenshots from the mentioned thread I see that modifiers use SRC1+SRC2 operation which FM3 doesn't have. - UPD2. found an answer in this post: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...et-update-jpiic-and-mimiq.164040/post-2115944
 
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Got to be careful when trying stereo shenanigans live. Remember, a full stereo sound basically means the sounds differ left and right. You can make this difference in three ways, time-based, frequency-based or tuning-based (and of course any combination of these)
Live I would go for different frequencies. You might wanna try this, split the signal after the Amp block and put a EQ block in both lines. No whatever you take out on one EQ you add on the other one and vice versa. Then have both lines go into a Cab block set to stereo.
Now both sides can be made to sound as different as you like while the “sum of your sounds” never really changed because EQ adjustments one one side are compensated on the other.
 
psychomanteum7 said:
I've been down this road before. If you want everyone to have a good experience, mono is the way, unless you have two separate guitar players. Stereo is cool for IEMs. but I find live I'm not thinking about ping pong delays or panning for a guitar break, I'm just feeding off the energy from the crowd and trying not to screw up lol
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Agreed.

Will Schut said:
Got to be careful when trying stereo shenanigans live. Remember, a full stereo sound basically means the sounds differ left and right. You can make this difference in three ways, time-based, frequency-based or tuning-based (and of course any combination of these)
Live I would go for different frequencies. You might wanna try this, split the signal after the Amp block and put a EQ block in both lines. No whatever you take out on one EQ you add on the other one and vice versa. Then have both lines go into a Cab block set to stereo.
Now both sides can be made to sound as different as you like while the “sum of your sounds” never really changed because EQ adjustments one one side are compensated on the other.
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As well as anything, you're at the whim of the sound engineer a lot of the time - and for live shows, they're generally trained to work in mono.
 
Orvillain said:
Agreed.


As well as anything, you're at the whim of the sound engineer a lot of the time - and for live shows, they're generally trained to work in mono.
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True 100%, If you gotta go mono, then there are other, more preferable methods. Drastically altering the EQ of your delay repeats springs to mind…
 
Live, even if you love the stereo you hear on stage or in ears, only people right down the centerline will hear anything like that. Everybody else just gets more of one side or the other -- delayed or not, one of your two amps or EQs, etc.

It's unfortunate, I really enjoy stereo at home.
 
You are at the mercy of the sound engineer. If I have a sound guy that I feel I can work with I'll do stereo but I'm only delaying one side 20ms and hard panning it. I've had good luck with this. But more often than not, I have to do mono and just feed them the side that's not delayed.

So, I guess for me, I'm ready to do either and only if I feel very sure the sound guy is on-board will I do stereo. Because if the sound guy doesn't pull it off correctly it'll just muddy up the sound.
 
I guess some people are playing bigger places than I do. When I go out into the audience at my gigs, the stereo image is definitely there.
 
Cooper Carter said:
Copy the pitch block out of the Petrucci Rig factory preset.
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I'm looking at a preset named Petrucci Rig 2020. Is that the most up to date? Also it uses an A and a B channel in pitch block on the scenes. Which pitch block should be copied to get the Mimiq fx? Thank you!
 
Chromatizm said:
Like how much "drastically"? Cutting off lows and highs leaving mids? Or something else?
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Yep, that’s one way. It’s a bit trial and error, depends on what you’re going for. You could put the delay in a parallel line instead of in series and put and EQ block right after it so the EQ will only influence the delay sound and not the direct sound. You could experiment with really short delay times as well, if you keep it under 20ms and you get the delay sound about as loud as the direct sound (but with a different EQ setting) you can dial in the sound of two different amps/guitarparts in mono.
 
Joel.Brown333 said:
I've being doing this for years and the method I like the best is to just use one amp but delay one side 20ms. Seems like anything more and it just muddies things up and anything less just isn't enough. The Fractal stereoizer didn't do it for me, at all.

You can download my preset here and try it out if you like: http://www.ChildrenOfTheGraveBand.com/AtomicaHighStereo.syx

My preset is configured for going into the effects return of a tube amp into a guitar cab. If you're going direct, then turn on PowerAmp modeling and pick your favorite cab/IR.
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It does sound good, here's why:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect

I sometimes increase the level of the delayed side to move the stereo image a bit more to the center. Note that this causes phasing issues in mono, but probably not an issue live.

I'd suggest running each side through a different cab IR (same flavor just pick a different ABCD placement for each side).
 
FarleyUK said:
Now, to my ears it seems the mono delay is somehow affecting the tone of the top row there,
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It could be some cancellation due to the signals being out of phase. The amount of delay dictates which frequencies will be reinforced / canceled.

Another approach is to use a ping-pong delay with times greater than the Haas limit of 30-50ms. If you have long sustained chords, you can play with the sound coming from one side, and hitting the other at say 100ms later and pong-ing back to the other side if the tempo allows. Use an LFO to rotate that setup and you'll have a swirling stereo image.

The Enhancer block stereoizes by splitting the signal in the frequency domain and panning the slices to opposite sides. That may work better for headphones than in a live setting (it's kinda subtle).

I've also used things like the pitch block Crystals effect to create "tails" that pan about in the stereo field without messing much with the base sound.
 
Will Schut said:
Got to be careful when trying stereo shenanigans live. Remember, a full stereo sound basically means the sounds differ left and right. You can make this difference in three ways, time-based, frequency-based or tuning-based (and of course any combination of these)
Live I would go for different frequencies. You might wanna try this, split the signal after the Amp block and put a EQ block in both lines. No whatever you take out on one EQ you add on the other one and vice versa. Then have both lines go into a Cab block set to stereo.
Now both sides can be made to sound as different as you like while the “sum of your sounds” never really changed because EQ adjustments one one side are compensated on the other.
Click to expand...
You'll also get the "benefit" of some phase changes that the EQs introduce. Could be bad or good...
 
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