Wish Synth Block updates? Polyphonic?

Ant Music

Ant Music

Fractal Fanatic
I wonder if the Synth block is going to be revamped and tricked out. I feel there is so much scope for further development of the Synth block to produce new types of sounds. Polyphonic pitch detection will be a major plus.
 
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Admin M@ said:
The Synth block on the Axe-Fx III under firmware 1.03 is a 3-voice monophonic synth.
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Nice! Thanks!

(There may be some folks who won't be satisfied until you guys stick a Korg Kronos in there. But 3 voices will be enough for me to play around with while I'm waiting for the FTC to approve Fractal's acquisition of Korg. ;) )
 
Dr. Dipwad said:
Nice! Thanks!

(There may be some folks who won't be satisfied until you guys stick a Korg Kronos in there. But 3 voices will be enough for me to play around with while I'm waiting for the FTC to approve Fractal's acquisition of Korg. ;) )
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It’s not the point that it has 3 voices, the main point is that it is still monophonic. It can only handle single single note inputs.
 
Admin M@ said:
The Synth block on the Axe-Fx III under firmware 1.03 is a 3-voice monophonic synth.
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Thanks for the response. As I suspected the synth block is unchanged from the Axe Fx 2. More to the point I’d like to know if there is any interest within FAS to develop the Synth block further on the new platform ie: polyphonic capability? Extra functionality?
 
I think the problem is that real synth/keys guys aren't going to be satisfied with anything in the Axe, short of the way to load VST's (which would be cool in itself) in the same way real guitar guys aren't ever going to be satisfied with any amp or effects in any synth/sampler/workstation.

It would be cool if the Axe III could do enough synth stuff I could get rid of my Virus Ti and Sub Phatty, but that simply isn't going to happen, any more than I'd get rid of my Fractal hardware and use the guitar amp/cab model on my workstation.

Basically the Axe has enough of a synth block for some casual cool sounding effects for intro's, outro's etc, which is cool, but, obviously well short of what you can do with even a simple iPad app. I think its a question of where do they focus the Axe development ? Excel at one thing, or do a couple things halfway decent ?

They could probably make the Axe do GM midi playback, have a simple sampled drum kit or two, couple of keys sounds etc. Hook a midi keyboard up and play some simple keys parts etc. But again, if someone really wanted to play keys, is the Axe the best choice ? Probably not, about a million other things that can do that better, many free VST's even. So to me, it would be sort of throwing out less than stellar features without a real target market, instead of focusing on just keeping the Axe the hands down best guitar modeler

thats my $0.02 at least
 
I don't think polyphonic synthesis from an audio guitar input signal is realistic. It may be enticing as an idea: but in practice its not suited to guitar. I started with the Roland VG-8 when it came out in the mid 1990s. With its individual string pickups and fine synth vocabulary (for the era), it was capable of some impressive synth results. However, even with those advantages: the characteristics of the guitar as an instrument are poorly suited to polyphonic triggering.

With a keyboard: you can trigger the notes of any chord simultaneously: on a guitar: that's just not possible unless you have some sort of super-precise tapping technique: and even then its so limited in terms of voicings compared to the ease of simultaneous triggering of any chord you can finger on a keyboard synth. A keyboard is precisely tuned. A guitar fingerboard is not. For most guitar tones, its significant level of inherent imprecision in tuning is masked by arpeggiation, or with strummed chords: each note's attack usually starting at slightly different times and/or by distortion. A guitar fingerboard's physical limitation of being slightly out of tune and not being able to trigger chords at the exact same moment sounds pretty awful IMHO with synth polyphony (as per experience with the VG-8), where a synths more simple harmonic content shows off every pitch, time and phase anomaly. AFAIK, its not currently possible to process a continuous audio signal input in real time for pitch detection and determine what is a fundamental and what is harmonics and on what string and have it assignable according to templates for conversion to polyphonic synthesis.

I gave up on guitar for synthesis years ago and took piano classes at the Community College. Other than using guitar synth for mono synth pad or lead work: I find a keyboard infinitely more versatile and easy to use. Guitar for guitar stuff, keyboard for synth stuff.

Monophonic synth accomplishes what is practical for guitar IMO. The Axe FX III also has a pair of inputs you can run the audio of an external hardware or soft synth of any denomination through for FAS effects and styling: That's great, and that's enough, IMO.
 
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artzeal said:
I don't think polyphonic synthesis from an audio guitar input signal is realistic. It may be enticing as an idea: but in practice its not suited to guitar. I started with the Roland VG-8 when it came out in the mid 1990s. With its individual string pickups and fine synth vocabulary (for the era), it was capable of some impressive synth results. However, even with those advantages: the characteristics of the guitar as an instrument are poorly suited to polyphonic triggering.

With a keyboard: you can trigger the notes of any chord simultaneously: on a guitar: that's just not possible unless you have some sort of super-precise tapping technique: and even then its so limited in terms of voicings compared to the ease of simultaneous triggering of any chord you can finger on a keyboard synth. A keyboard is precisely tuned. A guitar fingerboard is not. For most guitar tones, its significant level of inherent imprecision in tuning is masked by arpeggiation, or with strummed chords: each note's attack usually starting at slightly different times and/or by distortion. A guitar fingerboard's physical limitation of being slightly out of tune and not being able to trigger chords at the exact same moment sounds pretty awful IMHO with synth polyphony (as per experience with the VG-8), where a synths more simple harmonic content shows off every pitch, time and phase anomaly. AFAIK, its not currently possible to process a continuous audio signal input in real time for pitch detection and determine what is a fundamental and what is harmonics and on what string and have it assignable according to templates for conversion to polyphonic synthesis.

I gave up on guitar for synthesis years ago and took piano classes at the Community College. Other than using guitar synth for mono synth pad or lead work: I find a keyboard infinitely more versatile and easy to use. Guitar for guitar stuff, keyboard for synth stuff.

Monophonic synth accomplishes what is practical for guitar IMO. The Axe FX III also has a pair of inputs you can run the audio of an external hardware or soft synth of any denomination through for FAS effects and styling: That's great, and that's enough, IMO.
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In general, i agree with much that you say here, but as I have advocated on these pages before, if you are willing to go into it knowing the limitations and numerous potential pitfalls of midi guitar , it is pretty easy these days to get good sounding and convincingly polyphonic tones with a fast computer and something like a Fishman Tripleplay, or more easily with no additional hardware, the amazing MIDI GUITAR 2 by www.jamorigin.com ...and i am surely looking forward to integrating that with the bolstered I/O of my incoming Axfx III!
 
artzeal said:
I don't think polyphonic synthesis from an audio guitar input signal is realistic. It may be enticing as an idea: but in practice its not suited to guitar.
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Sorry but this just isn't correct. There are already various devices available exploiting polyphonic pitch detection. In fact I have a few of them myself. Whether it be a poly tune tuner or one of the EHX pedals that offer this functionality ie: the MEL9 Key9 B9 C9 and now Synth9 pedals. Polyphonic pitch detection simply no longer requires hex pickups or anything of the like as it has been demonstrated that it CAN and IS being done via a normal mono guitar jack signal.Great time to be alive. :)

lqdsnddist said:
I think the problem is that real synth/keys guys aren't going to be satisfied with anything in the Axe, short of the way to load VST's (which would be cool in itself) in the same way real guitar guys aren't ever going to be satisfied with any amp or effects in any synth/sampler/workstation.
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I think that is an unfair assumption. I would be very happy if the Axe Fx Synth could simply receive Midi Synth notes and incorporate polyphonic pitch detection. Any other expansions on capability would be greatly appreciated too. Similarly I have been more than happy enough with the amp modelling of the Axe Fx and also most people are too (aside from wanting their own favourite amp modeled).

lqdsnddist said:
I think its a question of where do they focus the Axe development ? Excel at one thing, or do a couple things halfway decent ?
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Yes, this is ultimately the question. As I have said elsewhere, clearly the Axe Fx excels in the amp modelling by far. Unfortunately some people associate any expansion of the capabilities of the synth block as being automatically detrimental to the development of the Amp Modelling (which is already miles ahead of even the closest competitor). This demonstrates a scarcity mindset whereas I see no reason why we couldn't have some (modest) expansion of the features of the Synth whilst still having an amp modeller that continues to be miles ahead of everything else. A half way decent synth that works better for guitar and unrivaled Amp modelling and effects would be a win win win in my book.
 
artzeal,

The Boss SY-300 was doing full polyphonic synthesis from a guitar input in 2015. Pickup selection and tone knobs even have an effect. It's definitely possible. The AFx's synth engine sounds much nicer than the SY-300 to me, so I'd be thrilled to get that polyphonic functionality on board. (I also understand how that's a more significant expansion on where the AFx is targeted.)

You and I clearly differ on our views on keyboards and fretboards. I concede that some parts of a fretboard are slightly off of standard pitch, but thousands of popular songs demonstrate that it isn't by enough to really matter. (Equal temperament means everything is slightly out-of-tune anyway.)

Further, I'd say it's the imprecision you can control with fingers on strings that makes the guitar so much more expressive than a keyboard. Some recent keyboards finally allow finger-by-finger pitch control, but it's not easy to get that to work for doing the double stop-but-bend-one-note staples of guitar playing. With a single keyboard layout, you still can't play two instances of the same note and wiggle them against each other to create tension.
 
Polyphonic pitch detection and synthesis, e.g. the EHX key pedals, would be a killer feature in the III.

I have the EHX C9. It tracks really good and sounds great. A block like that in the III would be amazing. It could stand a comp after it to tame it a bit.
 
I really hope the synth block gets some love in the future. I found the one from the II to be too finicky and unpredictable. It would randomly shift up an octave and forced me to play stacatto because it gets confused very easily.
 
barhrecords said:
Polyphonic pitch detection and synthesis, e.g. the EHX key pedals, would be a killer feature in the III.

I have the EHX C9. It tracks really good and sounds great. A block like that in the III would be amazing. It could stand a comp after it to tame it a bit.
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Would love to see this!
 
PumpkinKing86 said:
I really hope the synth block gets some love in the future. I found the one from the II to be too finicky and unpredictable. It would randomly shift up an octave and forced me to play stacatto because it gets confused very easily.
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I agree that the synth block could use a serious update. I hardly ever use it these days. EHX has proven it can be done.
 
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