Switching to V9xx in 10xx firmware?!?

B

BMH

Inspired
Hi,

I have looked for the answer, can't find it ...

In the past I have copied bank A to bank B when a new firmware release came out that had the old firmware as a global option. This way I can practice with my 50+ patches, come home, switch to the latest frimware in the globals, and tweak my presets in Bank B.

However, after turning the global to firmware 9xx, my old presets sound weird. I just gigged with them the day before, and they rip. Now they are odd sounding. I haven't touched the presets at all, just listened to them.

So what did I do wrong, or what should I do now? I have 50+ custom presets, most on an X/Y setup, and I cannot start over from scratch. Is there a way to really maintain 9xx presets in version 10?

Thanks,
Brian
 
BMH said:
Hi,

I have looked for the answer, can't find it ...

In the past I have copied bank A to bank B when a new firmware release came out that had the old firmware as a global option. This way I can practice with my 50+ patches, come home, switch to the latest frimware in the globals, and tweak my presets in Bank B.

However, after turning the global to firmware 9xx, my old presets sound weird. I just gigged with them the day before, and they rip. Now they are odd sounding. I haven't touched the presets at all, just listened to them.

So what did I do wrong, or what should I do now? I have 50+ custom presets, most on an X/Y setup, and I cannot start over from scratch. Is there a way to really maintain 9xx presets in version 10?

Thanks,
Brian
Click to expand...

Without going into a long explanation about what was done (because I'm not even totally sure), basically I believe there have been changes made to the amp block that will not be affected by changing what modeling version you are set to in the Global menu.



To get you close though, try doing this to each of your patches (I previously posted this in another thread on here):



- In the Global menu, set the "Modeling Version" to whatever you were using pre V10 (for most it will be "9.xx").


- On the Amp block's advanced page, turn "MIMIC" off (this more than anything else I list here will help to make your patches sound like they used to) and set the "PWR SUPPLY TYPE" to "DC".


- On the Amp block's "SPKR" page, return any of the values (if they were changed in V10) to what they were previously set to in V9.

(The SPKR page will still show the values it was set to in V9 unless if you have already reset the Amp block in the patch and saved it that way. If you haven't reset the amp and saved it, copy the amp to "Y" (or "X" if you are on "Y"), reset "Y" so it will be at V10'S settings, then switch between "X"&"Y" and compare each amp's "SPKR" page and see if any of the values are different.)



Change back anything else you can think of if it had a different setting in V9. I know the "DEPTH FREQ" in the Amp block's advanced menu was set to a different value in at least one of the amp sims I use. You might just want to extend what I suggested about comparing differences in the "SPKR" page between V9 & V10, and do a comparison between every page of the Amp block and fix any differences you might find. That way you'll have it as close as possible to the way it was in V9.




After that, use your ears and tweak. You hopefully will already be much closer to your pre V10 tones. You may find that you like some of V10's settings better (I preferred having the "PWR SUPPLY TYPE" set to AC in my patches for example), so don't discount them. Also don't ignore any of the new parameters. Turning up the new “Character” control in the Amp's advanced page just a tiny bit (less than + 0.50) really helped things for me and got rid of some unwanted muddiness and added some liveliness to the tone. The new "DYN DEPTH" and "THUNK" have also being useful in small doses.


This is what I am doing with my own patches and I am now getting very close to my old tones (and maybe getting some that are even a little better). It is especially hard for me because I primarily use the USA Lead & Lead+ sims and they were all completely redone in V10. So if I can do it, you probably can too. It certainly is better than going back to V9 and missing out on all the other goodies V10 has to offer besides the changes to the Amp block.

Good luck. :)
 
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Thanks .... but why would mimic be on, if I set the global to version 9xx as stated above? It wasn't in version 9xx ...

This is what I am missing ... does it go back to version 9xx, or not?? Sound like it doesn't.

As posted above, I tweak my presets by copying them to Bank B ... and use Bank A for practice or gigs, until I am done resetting to the new firmware. This is done by switching back to the new firmware and working on Bank B, then back to the old for practice and using untouched bank A.

This worked in previous releases. Not sure why it doesn't now. Again, unless version 9xx is not really restoring the 9xx firmware settings etc... then wouldn't that be a bug?
 
It's like I said in the first sentence from my post above - I believe there have have been significant changes made to the Amp block that are there regardless of what modeling version you are using. V10's "Modeling Version 9.xx" is not exactly the same as V9's "Modeling Version 9.xx".

MIMIC is on in every Amp sim, regardless of the modelling version you are using. You have to scroll down to the very bottom of the Amp sim's advanced menu and turn it off, patch by patch. Like I said, this is the biggest culprit in patches sounding different in V10 IMO.



In a perfect world, the different modeling versions in the Global menu would sound exactly like they did in their respective firmwares, and you would be able to use whatever one you wanted per patch, not globally for all patches. But even the Axe II has it's limitations (maybe in the Axe III :))
 
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Thanks shredi , I know what you posted ... but then it isn't 9xx firmware. It is either a bug, or misleading to even have it there. Why would MIMIIC be ON if it wasn't even in 9xx, if this isn't a bug?

I use 50 different amps, I am in cover band ... including all the Mesa amps. So it is not thrilling knowing that global 9xx is not in fact 9xx. And I still don't know what it really is. Or why they even have it there.

Cliff, how about a Fractal answer to this? That would help. I can tweak as I have done for years, but I also need to practice with the band and get ready for gigs in the meantime. Having the 9xx option in the globals actually be 9xx would have really helped.
 
Not a bug but a choice. It does make sense though to have MIMIC off when selecting global modeling methods other than v10.

To be honest, it might be best for your situation to stick with v9 right now as you are in the middle of gigs/performances. When you have a break, dive into 10 and see what you can do.

Many pros in the middle of tours or recording sessions are still with old versions of firmware - heck some are still using ultras only because they are touring. Except for bugs, if it worked before, it'll work now even if the newest firmware is out in the wild.
 
What would anybody want with the 9xx downgrade option in the globals if it didn't sound like 9? Why does it say 9xx if it is NOT 9xx?

Again, from my original post here:
"In the past I have copied bank A to bank B when a new firmware release came out that had the old firmware as a global option. This way I can practice with my 50+ patches, come home, switch to the latest frimware in the globals, and tweak my presets in Bank B."

It worked perfect in the past, sorry none of you thought to do it the way I did, but it saved a ton of time. I think this forum is awesome for getting help... and I have given a ton of it too.

But I want to know if Fractal can put 9xx in the globals, and not whatever the heck is in there now that is called 9xx.






Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
Not a bug but a choice. It does make sense though to have MIMIC off when selecting global modeling methods other than v10.

To be honest, it might be best for your situation to stick with v9 right now as you are in the middle of gigs/performances. When you have a break, dive into 10 and see what you can do.

Many pros in the middle of tours or recording sessions are still with old versions of firmware - heck some are still using ultras only because they are touring. Except for bugs, if it worked before, it'll work now even if the newest firmware is out in the wild.
Click to expand...
 
My guess is that with V10, the code for the amp sims has being changed to the point where 7,8,& 9.xx can no longer be fully replicated by it. So what he have are kind of "facsimile hybrids" (an oxymoron, I know) of the past modeling versions, with some unavoidable elements of 10.xx present.
 
shredi knight said:
My guess is that with V10, the code for the amp sims has being changed to the point where 7,8,& 9.xx can no longer be fully replicated by it. So what he have are kind of "facsimile hybrids" (an oxymoron, I know) of the past modeling versions, with some unavoidable elements of 10.xx present.
Click to expand...

OK, thanks .. it is what it is ... wish I had the cash for another AxeII, that would solve my problem ... except for my wife's reaction to me buying another one ...
 
I will give it a try to explain why you don't get the results you are expecting when rolling back to fw 9.02. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm not fractal employee.

Simplified you can say that the sound and feeling(ampwise) in a firmware depend on two things.
#1. The models of the amps. That is the construction of the resistors, tubes, capacitors and cables and their values.

#2. There needs to be a code that dictates what happends when you pluck your strings and how the parts in the models should react and interact.

I believe that when you change fw type, back to 9 for example, then you change #2.
But since the models also have been changed and they are not "rolled back" when you change fw in the global menu you will not get your firmware 9.02 sound back. Unless you uninstall fw10 and install fw9.
And with this firmware change maybe some of the amps models were drastically changed.

Since I believe that Cliff used MMIC to change the values and other stuff in the amp models so that they match the originals as close as possible, MIMIC on/off only changes that little 1/1000 bit, that right now can't be modeled.
And a change of fw in the global menu only changes the stuff hidden from us users.

Take care and good luck!
 
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