Sweetened tunings

Wildwind

Experienced
Some of you may be familiar with the sweetened tuning that Peterson uses on their strobe tuners. I'm curious if anyone knows the offsets so I can program my Axe-Fx II in this fashion. If someone has already done it, I'd prefer not figure it out on my own.

And maybe the Axe's tuner is already like this. My guitars sound great, so no complaint. And I haven't compared them side-by-side yet. This thought just struck me and I'm short on time, figured I'd just throw it out there. Like you have nothing better to do...

Thanks - Greg
 
Thanks Paul!
BTW - Does anyone know if these values are the same if you tune down 1/2 step? Whole step?
 
Just tried this on one of my guitars, just like a butt dyno adds 50hp from your new exhaust, to me this made more chords sound in tune. If that makes any sense.

Normally, an open G chord doesn't sound quite, the low E is always just a bit sharp and throws the whole chord off. In the past if I knew I was playing a song with an open G, I would tune the low E flat a few cents to compensate.

This tuning seems to sound good to me.

Pretty easy to set up with the offsets option built into the tuner.
 
no - the sweatened tuning:

E1 = -2.3 cent
B2 = 0
G3 = 0
D4 = -0.4 Cent
A5 = -2.1 Cent
E6 = -2.3 Cent

Hi Paul

Just curious as to where you got these numbers from?
Was it just from experimenting with a Peterson tuner vs the Axe's (or some other) tuner?
Or were they obtained from a document originating with Peterson?

I've got a Peterson clip-on tuner now and your numbers do seem pretty accurate.
 
I set mine up that way too - way easy. My main guitar is a compensated scale (Melancon), so I may end up bypassing the offsets (also easy to do) for that, though I played it this morning and it sounded great like that. My other guitars definitely benefit from the offsets. So I greatly appreciate for offsets - they are right on the money.
 
Sweatened tuning is a term peterson use for custom offsets in their tuners - that makes more chords sound "more in tune" than standard tuning.

I have no idea if they work for de-tuning as ive never detuned a guitar in my life - BUT as there to do with where the frets physically are (so electronically compensating in a way the Buzz Feinten nut does) i suspect they will.

I got the offsets from a forum a while ago - cant remember which (could be TPG, could have been the Peterson Forum, could have been Huge Racks). At the time I had a Stroborack and comparing the AFX2 with those offsets with the real thing seemed pretty spot on.
 
I'll take a shot at this - Peterson uses this term with their various strobe tuners.

Players will sometimes tune certain strings a bit sharp or flat of "center" to make their guitars play more in tune up and down the neck. Usually the more complex the oft-used chord forms, the more likely that player will use something like this. But to my ears it works well on everything. Eric Johnson speaks of this on his instructional DVD; one member of the Hellcasters does as well, which was the first I had heard of it. In years past, I heard various jazz guitarists mention this. Usually they would tune, then adjust a couple of strings.

I have a StroboStomp I rarely use - and a Warmoth Tele that is fussy about tuning at times - and so I dug it out and found it really did make a difference. Rather than carry the Peterson around, it made sense the tuner in the Axe would give the same results, which is does via the offset adjustment.

IMO, there is a bit more to this - with sweetened tuning, the guitar just seems to be a bit more alive and toneful. It could be just in my head, but I have heard this consistently for many years (which still does not rule out mental disease...).

I'm sure someone else around here can explain it better.
 
what is the sweetened tuning?

Normal guitar fretboards are built around the concept of 12-tone-equal-temperament. ("12TET")
12TET involves 12 symmetrically equivalent divisions of the octave so that each semitone is equidistant from any neighbouring semitone.

12TET is a compromise that allows for music to be played in any key with the most amount of "in-tuneness" possible without needing to resort to re-tuning for each key.

Our ears use the simplest intervals found in the harmonic overtone series ("OTS") as their gauge for what "in-tune" sounds like.
In the OTS, perfect octaves first occur between the fundamental tone and its 2nd partial (aka "1st overtone") and has a simple frequency ratio of 2:1.
In the OTS, perfect 5ths first occur between the 2nd and 3rd partials of a fundamental tone and have a simple frequency ratio of 3:2.
Maj 3rds first occur between partials 4 and 5 and have a freq ratio of 5:4.
Etc.
In a pure OTS based tuning system, POctaves, P5ths, Maj3rds, etc. do not make any audible beats and are very smooth and consonant sounding to the ear.
That smoothness is what we experience as "harmony" or "in-tuneness".

But those types of intervals are predicated on there first being a single fundamental tone governing all the other possible intervals and is really only practical to implement in drone-based music; like simple modal vamps or just intonations based upon single keys.
Modern music involves access at all times to remotely related keys and the easiest way to make this practical is 12TET.

In 12TET the *only* interval that is pure and that exhibits no audible beating is the octave (and the unison, of course).
*Every* other interval that is possible within 12TET is slightly "out-of-tune" compared to its OTS-based closest cousin.
This includes "Perfect 5ths" and "Perfect 4ths", which are not perfect at all in 12TET and are supposed to beat slightly.
That's why when you play a power chord (P5th interval) with a hi-gain tone that the upper note of the 5th sounds flat and you need to press slightly harder on that note to get it to stop beating compared to the lower note.
And that's the way that P5ths on the guitar are supposed to operate/sound by design.
In 12TET, maj 3rd intervals sound sour too, but that's the way they're supposed to sound.

Players of non-fixed-pitch-instruments, e.g. violin, routinely adjust their intervals dynamically from chord to chord to more closely resemble the pure intervals of the OTS.
On guitar, whether you're aware of it or not, we also adjust our touch slightly from chord to chord to compensate for the out-of-tuneness of 12TET.

Normally, on a properly intonated guitar, every note at each fret on each string should be as close as possible to the 12TET standard for that pitch.
I.e. Each fret divides the strings into 12 equal semitones per octave.

In order to make the sourness of 12TET on fretted guitars a bit more palatable there have been several tuning offsets designed away from 12TET that the various proponents of said offsets claim to make the overall tuning of the guitar a bit more palatable.
But even the most cleverly designed tuning offset for guitar will cause some chords and intervals to sound even more out-of-tune than they would sound in true 12TET.
It's really a game of numbers in that these tuning offsets are generally most useful for the simplest intervals and chords, i.e. for maj or and minor triads etc.

My own attitude about these types of tuning offsets is that I'd rather start from an accurate base line of 12TET and then just adjust my touch as needed to sweeten things dynamically on the fly.
But I have to admit that the Peterson "GTR" offset sounds pretty good to me right now.
I might even try it out on my big band gig tonight and see how it sits with all those other players.
 
Great comments joegold. I remember the old days of watching piano tuners temper the tuning with beat frequencies based on the tonic and fifth etc. it seemed a black art to get it right. (a bit like bell-ringing.) i would read books on tempered tuning but could never tune a piano correctly. Now software enables us all to get it spot on to a reference. The problem is it all tends to be a compromise based on what keys your going to play in. It's great to read these forums and see the experience available to us through collaboration with people like you. Thanks all.
 
Yeah, thanks Joe. I was hoping someone knew enough to post a definitive answer.

And I do agree - these offsets might not always be desirable. But so far they are working well.
 
Just tried this on one of my guitars, just like a butt dyno adds 50hp from your new exhaust, to me this made more chords sound in tune. If that makes any sense.

Normally, an open G chord doesn't sound quite, the low E is always just a bit sharp and throws the whole chord off. In the past if I knew I was playing a song with an open G, I would tune the low E flat a few cents to compensate.

This tuning seems to sound good to me.

Pretty easy to set up with the offsets option built into the tuner.

Thank god for that post! Im finding that on quite a few of my guitars. Some are ok though :S
 
The problem is it all tends to be a compromise based on what keys your going to play in.
I discovered this very thing while recording the first time: I spontaneously started to tune the guitar slightly different from section to section, from key to key.

Edit: do some of you remember the first time you played with distortion? The chords (exccepth the 5th ones) where all out of tune! :D
 
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Yes you can program these offsets, but I didn't like them, ymmv.
 
Anybody have something similar for programming Buzz Feiten tuning offsets?
I have had 2 Stobostomps and loved them but wouldn't want to use one with
the axe (redundant). I have 5 BF guitars so it matters. Thanks!
 
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