Struggling with my FM3……..help

[la szum]

Honestly, it shouldn't be this hard.

 

[JoKeR III]

Here's your preset with some of the tweaks I normally do. One thing off the bat was the level was too high on my system. Used the Preset Leveling tool and got all scenes around nominal and got clearer tones.

 

[phillyred79]

He's clearly using AustinBuddy's Gold template which can lead to some issues routing-wise and levels depending on single vs hum pups...

 

[Ron_R]

I mix on 6" monitors, and play mp3's on them and it sounds real good. If I put that same sound through my 2-12" Headrushes it sounds phenomenal. But you're idea of good sound quality form your guitar, especially live, or in a band practice situation is playing through 5" speakers, I'm simply not gonna argue with you because your lost. " 5" studio monitors for a decade." Too funny. Get out of your bedroom dude.

Not lost. I have a full band of equipment in my basement studio and can keep up no problem with my son banging on his drums while I chug through those studio monitors. When people are making presets for FOTH situations for live play, they can certainly do that on 5" monitors and then tweak with the Global EQ settings for the FOTH and the room they're playing.

I'd prefer if you didn't laugh or chide my personal experience. We are all here to learn from each other. You don't like what I have to say? Simply ignore it next time. Thanks and be well.

 

[JoKeR III]

I mix on 6" monitors, and play mp3's on them and it sounds real good. If I put that same sound through my 2-12" Headrushes it sounds phenomenal. But you're idea of good sound quality form your guitar, especially live, or in a band practice situation is playing through 5" speakers, I'm simply not gonna argue with you because your lost. " 5" studio monitors for a decade." Too funny. Get out of your bedroom dude.

People use all sorts of tools that work for them. No need to be one.

 

[unix-guy]

1. You do not need to route your signal chain like that. You can have all you AMP + CAB + VERB + FILTER + LOOPER + GEQ and outputs in the same line. The Send and Return function on the FM3 is sometimes used for more complex routing, but I digress (to each their own)

That is one convoluted signal path, for sure.

There's nothing wrong or convoluted about that routing.

It leaves space to experiment with adding or moving blocks without a lot of effort.

Yes, you could put all the effects blocks in a single grid row but there's no reason at all that you need to.

The biggest downside would be that every shunt uses a small amount of CPU which adds up if you're tight on CPU.

 

[jlynnb1]

My recommendation stays the same. Unless he has the cash for 2 "better" frfrs with 12" speakers. 5" monitors, and headphones should be the first clue in this mystery. lol

My recommendation stays the same. Unless he has the cash for 2 "better" frfrs with 12" speakers. 5" monitors, and headphones should be the first clue in this mystery. "Where's the beef?" LOL..

those Genelecs are miles better than the Headrush cabs....

 

[WbbS]

@drnat here is my take on your preset.

Honestly it didn't sounded that bad through my monitors. Anyway I just simplified the chain and changed the CABs (file with extension: syx).
Plus I added, in channel B of the CAB block, an IR I made based on my Kemper profiles (you can find this in the second file with the extension: fasBundle)

I only worked on the Lead (Scene 4).

I hope this helps.

 

[drnat]

@drnat here is my take on your preset.

Honestly it didn't sounded that bad through my monitors. Anyway I just simplified the chain and changed the CABs (file with extension: syx).
Plus I added, in channel B of the CAB block, an IR I made based on my Kemper profiles (you can find this in the second file with the extension: fasBundle)

I only worked on the Lead (Scene 4).

I hope this helps.

Thanks @Gl4th that is really kind - will try it tonight hopefully! Really appreciated

 

[Jarick]

So here's my thoughts as someone that plays pretty much exclusively through headphones (or occasionally small monitors).

There's a lot of reasons an amp modeler running into headphones doesn't sound like a real guitar amp:

• Real amps use speakers made for guitar that will typically roll off a lot of high frequencies and change the midrange character
• Real amps use big speakers that push significantly more volume of air
• Real amps at higher volumes will sound a lot fuller than at low volumes due to how our ears work
• Real amps produce sound waves that interact with the environment, creating an echo/reverb/sense of space

Impulse responses will capture the sound and character of a speaker, but it introduces a couple other things:

• Impulses capture not only the character of the speaker, but the character of the microphone used to capture it
• Impulses are generally taken very close to the speaker, where in real life you would likely be many feet away

So with that in mind, here's some ideas:

• Roll off high frequencies when using impulses, either in the cab block (high cut), with a shelf EQ, or both
• Pick impulses that blend or are predominantly using ribbon or condenser mics, which will be warmer sounding than typical dynamic mics
• Add a room reverb after the cabinet to introduce a sense of space that you will be missing
• Add a bit of stereo delay after the cabinet and before the room reverb to give an additional sense of space if you like
• Reset the cab channel to make sure there is no hidden changes to the EQ
• Reset the global settings to ensure there's no hidden global EQ

Lastly, you may need to also adjust your expectations a bit. That's not to say you will accept a bad sound, but that your end sound is probably closer to a killer sounding guitar track from a record rather than a killer sounding guitar amp in a room. That's just a brief adjustment though and I think you can get killer sounds that way, and ultimately I prefer them to the loud, raw, and sometimes harsh sounds of a tube amp.

 

[PRSfreak4]

Lastly, you may need to also adjust your expectations a bit. That's not to say you will accept a bad sound, but that your end sound is probably closer to a killer sounding guitar track from a record rather than a killer sounding guitar amp in a room. That's just a brief adjustment though and I think you can get killer sounds that way, and ultimately I prefer them to the loud, raw, and sometimes harsh sounds of a tube amp.

This. +1

 

[drnat]

Just want to say a huge thanks for all who contributed to this thread.
I have learnt a lot from it & been reminded of some stuff that I already knew

I am the guy with lots of gear & little idea, so thanks for bearing with me & helping me get out of my increasing frustrations.

I have used my other PRS SE custom 24 guitar which has alnico II Pro pickups in and that is sounding better too!
I have listened to my Blackstar 2x12 combo again today - was surprised by how it sounded, and was different to memories of it! Didn’t sound as warm or smooth as I remember & was disappointed tbh!
Played the FM3 through the genelec’s at higher volumes this afternoon (benefits of working from home from time to time) & it sounded a lot better.

I have added many of the hints & tips from this thread to my headphone patches & that again has helped.

I am going back to concentrating on playing guitar, learning a few amps & not obsessing with a mythical sound that likely doesn’t exist. I am convinced fractal are the best devices out there, with the best support from the company, their associates & the community, so will be keeping a fractal unit - I was about to return the FM3 earlier in the week! Wouldn’t have been able to get a better alternative though - so back to basics really.

Really appreciate all the help & support & sorry for being so clueless!!

 

[JoKeR III]

Just want to say a huge thanks for all who contributed to this thread.
I have learnt a lot from it & been reminded of some stuff that I already knew

I am the guy with lots of gear & little idea, so thanks for bearing with me & helping me get out of my increasing frustrations.

I have used my other PRS SE custom 24 guitar which has alnico II Pro pickups in and that is sounding better too!
I have listened to my Blackstar 2x12 combo again today - was surprised by how it sounded, and was different to memories of it! Didn’t sound as warm or smooth as I remember & was disappointed tbh!
Played the FM3 through the genelec’s at higher volumes this afternoon (benefits of working from home from time to time) & it sounded a lot better.

I have added many of the hints & tips from this thread to my headphone patches & that again has helped.

I am going back to concentrating on playing guitar, learning a few amps & not obsessing with a mythical sound that likely doesn’t exist. I am convinced fractal are the best devices out there, with the best support from the company, their associates & the community, so will be keeping a fractal unit - I was about to return the FM3 earlier in the week! Wouldn’t have been able to get a better alternative though - so back to basics really.

Really appreciate all the help & support & sorry for being so clueless!!

Everyone at some point was 'clueless', there's a learning curve for sure and it's easy to overthink things or get too creative when crafting tones. One of the first things I noticed in your preset was the Grid Bias set at 0.480 which is basically a cold tube bias. That has an impact on the feel and gain structure of an amp model. Adjusting it to @ 0.700, my personal tweaks in post #82, immediately changed the feel of each scene. Also, the Output Compressor in the Dynamics page can have a significant effect as well; use the Output type for clean tones, Feedback type for any level of drive. These are a couple of go to parameters for me when creating presets.

 

[WbbS]

I am the guy with lots of gear & little idea

You're not alone. Sometimes we prefer adding more gear rather than exploring more in depth what we have.
It's the eternal research for something new.

Glad you decided to keep the Fractal, you won't regret it.

 

[drnat]

Everyone at some point was 'clueless', there's a learning curve for sure and it's easy to overthink things or get too creative when crafting tones. One of the first things I noticed in your preset was the Grid Bias set at 0.480 which is basically a cold tube bias. That has an impact on the feel and gain structure of an amp model. Adjusting it to @ 0.700, my personal tweaks in post #82, immediately changed the feel of each scene. Also, the Output Compressor in the Dynamics page can have a significant affect as well; use the Output type for clean tones, Feedback type for any level of drive. These are a couple of go to parameters for me when creating presets.

Wasn’t even aware of the Grid Bias - will try that - thanks,

 

[drnat]

You're not alone. Sometimes we prefer adding more gear rather than exploring more in depth what we have.
It's the eternal research for something new.

Glad you decided to keep the Fractal, you won't regret it.

I can only remember being the guy with an idea but no gear when I had a wooden tennis racket as a child & played a really pro looking champ with a graphite racquet whilst on holiday in Switzerland - thumped him……wonder if he went off & thought he needed a different racquet .

I may be swapping the FM3 to an FX III, purely as it would fit my workspace/desk better, not due to needing any of the features.….I’m so sad lol!

 

[WbbS]

I can only remember being the guy with an idea but no gear when I had a wooden tennis racket as a child & played a really pro looking champ with a graphite racquet whilst on holiday in Switzerland - thumped him……wonder if he went off & thought he needed a different racquet .

I may be swapping the FM3 to an FX III, purely as it would fit my workspace/desk better, not due to needing any of the features.….I’m so sad lol!

I wanted to upgrade my Apollo Twin MKII to X only because of the “x” printed.

 

[Will Chen]

Wasn’t even aware of the Grid Bias - will try that - thanks,

This is why starting with a blank slate is best IMHO, amp models at all default settings vs a preset where deep settings have been modified and you end up spending time undoing them as the preset was designed for a vastly different guitar/output system.

 

[JoKeR III]

I can only remember being the guy with an idea but no gear when I had a wooden tennis racket as a child & played a really pro looking champ with a graphite racquet whilst on holiday in Switzerland - thumped him……wonder if he went off & thought he needed a different racquet .

I may be swapping the FM3 to an FX III, purely as it would fit my workspace/desk better, not due to needing any of the features.….I’m so sad lol!

I have the Axe III and the FM3 and yes, the Axe III gets the most attention by far. I can get by with the FM3 but the III is just so much more powerful, no worrying about overloading presets, plus the ability to mix more than 2 IRs is a key to my presets. I typically use 2 different speakers L and R and either a back-of-cab or room IR blended with them.

 

[Jinch0]

Hi Guys,

I know I’ve put a few posts up about dealing in good tones and I have followed these. I have tried aftermarket IRs - especially YA & OH ones, have bought the Austin Buddy gold pack and the Cooper Carter masterclass, but I’m still struggling to get tones that I’m really happy with.

Equipment:

FM3 with FC6
Sennheiser HD 660s
Genelec 8010as
PRS custon 24 SE
PRS custom Mark Tremonti LP style SE
Les Paul standard with Alnico 2 pro pups in.

Blackstar Series 1-45 2x12 combo valve amp & S1 104 (or 6) 6L6 100w head

I can get some ok clean tones
Some of my EOBU tones are ok but most of the distorted sounds are very digital sounding to me, lack warmth and depth.
The Austin Buddy Hook presets especially sound like the speaker has a hole in it with 6th string power chords

I quite like the Brit 800 preset for distorted sounds, but not many of the others - is it getting worse for me over time? Am I getting more disillusioned & frustrated. Currently nearly at my 30 day return period & feel like & am not winning here & should return the unit - modellers aren’t for me??? Want it to work, but not sure where to go to from here?

Is this normal, am I just an incompetent newbie?

Any help, counselling or advice welcome.

Thanks,

I been struggling for a year and I have tried monitors, tube and solid state power amp with a cab and the headrush 112. As soon I get a chance I'm going to get a tube amp and use the fm3 for fx or sell it because i only use delay and some reverb and some chorus.