Stratedgy for Heavily Driven Input Boost With Analog Pedals and the FM3?

[Chevron]

I am recently new to the Fractal Universe, and one question I have is how to best recreate the sound I get when driving my valves amps with a Fuzz Face or similar distortion/overdrive pedal.

I have a Reeves 2n2Face Fuzz pedal, which has a great sound and a very hot output with lots of level. So with the hot output, you can smash the level in to a clean valve amp input and it creates this very cool overblown and heavily saturated drive on the amp's input, which works amazingly well with the Fuzz sound to create a supersaturated and thick sound.

So I am thinking about how to replicate this with the FM3, if doable? I guess driving the output hot from the Fuzz pedal will just clip the input converters to the FM3 - so maybe raising the Input Trim in the Amp block, or switching on a Clean Boost in the Amp Block Preamp to kinda stack after the Fuzz?

Or maybe even using another pedal after the Fuzz but before hitting the FM3 to simulate the amp's input being driven hard...

Be interested to know your techniques for this...

 

[Eman7422]

Maybe use one of the built in excellent drive pedals?

 

[Pavel]

I agree with Eman7422 (many excellent options available), however, you can also try to play around with the input pad levels (see page 5 in the FM3 manual). If you do not fancy the results, another thing you can try is running your external fuzz pedal in a loop that places it in front of the amp block in the FM3 instead of in front of the main guitar input (see "Inserting Outboard Gear" page 37 in the FM3 manual). I like using external pedals too sometimes - hope this helps you out

 

[Chevron]

Thanks guys, I'll give those things a try. I guess what I am really asking is, if you can hit the front end of an Amp Block with enough level. Either from the Input Block, or Boost Parameter in the Amp Block or other internal FM3 method will the Amp selected in the Amp Block react as it does when you smash the hell out of the front end of a valve amp? I mean that really heavily, heavily saturated tone you get when driving very. very hard.

It is hard to describe if you haven't really driven an amps input ridiculously hard and what I am talking about - but this video at the linked time is a good example. See how the amp goes in to some serious grungy

 

[Pavel]

If I really want to slam the input of the AMP block, I go with one of the internal boosts or drives - I feel it is a safer option. Plus, the DRIVE block is so good right now (with all the updates in the recent months) that I often prefer using it over external pedals.

 

[iaresee]

Thanks guys, I'll give those things a try. I guess what I am really asking is, if you can hit the front end of an Amp Block with enough level. Either from the Input Block, or Boost Parameter in the Amp Block or other internal FM3 method will the Amp selected in the Amp Block react as it does when you smash the hell out of the front end of a valve amp? I mean that really heavily, heavily saturated tone you get when driving very. very hard.

Yes. You can do that, all in the box.

Analog pedals don't work the same way though. You can't "smash it with level" because the first thing the analog pedal is hitting is the A/D converter and smashing that with too much level will prevent it from doing it's job well. And the results aren't pleasant sounding when it's being clipped.

You can do it to some degree, but it's not entirely the same as in an all-analog chain.

But, if you keep it all in the box and do it with a drive block into an amp block you can drive the levels to the moon and see what happens just fine.

Try all the options you mentioned? They all cause the amp models to behave a little differently. Pure level will clip the preamp in the amp model, more drive and level from a drive block will accentuate the clipped signal characteristics. You can even lower the variac on the amp block and play around with starving it voltage to see what happens. Or try the sag control?

LOTS of ways to play here!

 

[Chevron]

Yes. You can do that, all in the box.

Analog pedals don't work the same way though. You can't "smash it with level" because the first thing the analog pedal is hitting is the A/D converter and smashing that with too much level will prevent it from doing it's job well. And the results aren't pleasant sounding when it's being clipped.

You can do it to some degree, but it's not entirely the same as in an all-analog chain.

But, if you keep it all in the box and do it with a drive block into an amp block you can drive the levels to the moon and see what happens just fine.

Try all the options you mentioned? They all cause the amp models to behave a little differently. Pure level will clip the preamp in the amp model, more drive and level from a drive block will accentuate the clipped signal characteristics. You can even lower the variac on the amp block and play around with starving it voltage to see what happens. Or try the sag control?

LOTS of ways to play here!

Amazing and thank you for the tips. I've found plenty of places to push the amp the Amp Block, and then I started with the Variac and Sag parameters! To my ears this is great, and with the Deluxe Tweed on a clean setting and lowering the Variac percentage I can get some really nice gritty stuff happening - it reminds me of the Dirt (HeadRoom) control on the Audio Kitchen Big Trees. Which you also lower to

Thanks again this is very inspiring stuff.

 

[pedalbuilder]

I am recently new to the Fractal Universe, and one question I have is how to best recreate the sound I get when driving my valves amps with a Fuzz Face or similar distortion/overdrive pedal.

I have a Reeves 2n2Face Fuzz pedal, which has a great sound and a very hot output with lots of level. So with the hot output, you can smash the level in to a clean valve amp input and it creates this very cool overblown and heavily saturated drive on the amp's input, which works amazingly well with the Fuzz sound to create a supersaturated and thick sound.

So I am thinking about how to replicate this with the FM3, if doable? I guess driving the output hot from the Fuzz pedal will just clip the input converters to the FM3 - so maybe raising the Input Trim in the Amp block, or switching on a Clean Boost in the Amp Block Preamp to kinda stack after the Fuzz?

Or maybe even using another pedal after the Fuzz but before hitting the FM3 to simulate the amp's input being driven hard...

Be interested to know your techniques for this...

It depends on the topology of the drive pedal that you’re using, but for most drive pedals, you can replicate the effect of overdriving the amp’s input stage by cranking the input trim control of the amp. Just make sure to keep the output level of the pedal at ~unity gain so that you don’t clip the A/D converter on the FM3.

 

[Chevron]

It depends on the topology of the drive pedal that you’re using, but for most drive pedals, you can replicate the effect of overdriving the amp’s input stage by cranking the input trim control of the amp. Just make sure to keep the output level of the pedal at ~unity gain so that you don’t clip the A/D converter on the FM3.

Great thanks I will give this a try.

I'm getting some good stuff happening with Fuzz pedals by running them in to the FM3 > Amp Block and messing with the Variac and Sag settings. The altered headroom in the power amp is getting some tasty dirt to fuse with the Fuzz.

 

[iaresee]

I'm getting some good stuff happening with Fuzz pedals by running them in to the FM3 > Amp Block and messing with the Variac and Sag settings. The altered headroom in the power amp is getting some tasty dirt to fuse with the Fuzz.

Nice! I mostly abandoned my analog gear when I went Fractal all but for a bunch of fuzz boxes that are super unique. I run them out in front of the Fractal gear at ~unity gain and it works fantastic.

Having amp things like a variac on every model and not having to worry about physically damaging amps is a crazy cool advantage of the Fractal approach to digital sound. This is where modeling shines IMHO.

 

[Chevron]

Nice! I mostly abandoned my analog gear when I went Fractal all but for a bunch of fuzz boxes that are super unique. I run them out in front of the Fractal gear at ~unity gain and it works fantastic.

Having amp things like a variac on every model and not having to worry about physically damaging amps is a crazy cool advantage of the Fractal approach to digital sound. This is where modeling shines IMHO.

I can totally see that, and I am also currently assessing my pedals to see what is worth keeping.

I can't ever see not having a Fuzz Factory, is there anything in the FM3 to simulate the gated/velcro bias sound of the FF and other pedals?

Those under the hood settings are incredibly powerful, thanks again for pointing me in that direction.

 

[iaresee]

I can't ever see not having a Fuzz Factory, is there anything in the FM3 to simulate the gated/velcro bias sound of the FF and other pedals?

Fuzzes are so unique I'd say if you like a pedal fuzz: keep it. Chances you'll emulate it exactly in the digital realm right now are slim.

Fuzz is like wine IME. You want to try them all and every bottle is unique.

There's a pretty good gated fuzz sound available, though it's not necessarily a Fuzz Factory. Use the Bender model:



Details are here.



That being said, there's lots of ways to craft fuzzy sounds in the box. For something more extreme:



See thread here for details


And this, also hard to do IRL without bleeding your ears:



See thread here for details

 

[Tonedeaf]

I've watched a hundred demos looking for the right fuzz pedal, but none of them made me go "Ah-Ha, that's the one!" My best sounding fuzz "pedal" was in a Hofner guitar version of Sir Paul's bass that had a built in fuzz (and treble booster). But that might be a memory thing- it was a long time ago.

 

[Chevron]

@iaresee Awesome, and very much the sounds I am looking to coax from the FM3 too.

I just dialled in your Bender settings and I got lost in playing some blues riffs with it - always a good sign - and thank you, I have an even higher level of appreciation for the FM3 now

Good analogy with wine being like Fuzz, and I really do want to try all the fuzzes I can both in the FM3 and hardware pedals to broaden my palette. I am currently seeing the Fractal Fuzz pedals as an addition to the hardware Fuzz pedals I have, rather than digital vs analog and using them according to taste.

I have to say the Fractal Bender is fast becoming my fav amongst them all, and I really like the large and loose but not flabby low-end combined with the gritty and rich overtones of the Bender. The fact you have a super wide range of parameters to tweak is a mega bonus. The Bender Drive and Tweed Deluxe amp is a great combo.

 

[bradlake]

@iaresee Awesome, and very much the sounds I am looking to coax from the FM3 too.

I just dialled in your Bender settings and I got lost in playing some blues riffs with it - always a good sign - and thank you, I have an even higher level of appreciation for the FM3 now

Good analogy with wine being like Fuzz, and I really do want to try all the fuzzes I can both in the FM3 and hardware pedals to broaden my palette. I am currently seeing the Fractal Fuzz pedals as an addition to the hardware Fuzz pedals I have, rather than digital vs analog and using them according to taste.

I have to say the Fractal Bender is fast becoming my fav amongst them all, and I really like the large and loose but not flabby low-end combined with the gritty and rich overtones of the Bender. The fact you have a super wide range of parameters to tweak is a mega bonus. The Bender Drive and Tweed Deluxe amp is a great combo.

You are getting in on this at a very opportune time, as the recent FW updates have really upped the ante as far as how all the Cygnus amps interact with drives and fuzzes, both analog and in the box. I too , have only analog fuzz pedals left, and they are , to continue the wine analogy, best sampled in smaller doses.....