Not a Bug Strange Phase Issues [Solved]

BTU

BTU

Member
Hi there!

Trying to use AxeFxIII mk2 for reamping guitars but face some unpredictable phase issues: partly it's all ok, but sometimes summary sound dramatically changes... Unexpectedly...

I did a little test for confirmation: played same source riff through same preset twice and record result, then I played both tracks with same level but first track was inverted. I hear no phase cancellation first but later it begins... I think that cancellation should be permanent in this situation...

Test video:


Firmware ver. 22, USB firmware ver. 1.15, driver ver. 5.58. Buffer settings: 512 samples, safe mode (same result with any settings).
Project sampling freq is 48 kHz.
DAW: Cockos Reaper.
I'm using PC with win10.
Preset is simple as stick: drive-amp-cab with 1 IR.
No manipulations with pc and/or axefx during recording, but axe edit is on all the time.

Will be gratefull for any advice!

Upd:
This problem was solved with help of DLC86.
If you face issues like clicks and pops with any buffer settings running win10, you can check your Deferred Procedure Call latency with LatencyMon to find your trouble soft and hardware.
You can also set affinity mask for really slow interruptions with MS InterruptAffinityPolicyTool, check out this entry for details:
https://www.bluecataudio.com/Blog/t...atency-issues-with-nvidia-drivers-on-windows/

By the way, get all your software and drivers up-to-date before panic)
Good luck to all!

Upd:
Nope, the search continues...
 
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I wonder if there's something in the preset that is intentionally not exactly reproducible?
 
If your preset has drive blocks in it, some of those flip the phase (Tim, KOT, etc.) a phase switch in the drive blocks that flip phase would be a great feature.
 
GlennO said:
I wonder if there's something in the preset that is intentionally not exactly reproducible?
Click to expand...
Don't know what... Preset stays intact all through this recording test, there is no any modifiers in it at all...
In this particular case I'm using my own selfmade irs (with axe capturing feature), but can upload preset later.

I think it might be some spontaneous data loss... Or I'm doing something very wrong) or just don't understand...
 
WKSmith said:
If your preset has drive blocks in it, some of those flip the phase (Tim, KOT, etc.) a phase switch in the drive blocks that flip phase would be a great feature.
Click to expand...
Using just one scene during test and drive block is bypassed all the time. There is no changes in preset during this test((

But phase difference changes on the go...
 
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Here is preset I'm using (only scene 1 for test).

I doubt that problem is on axefx side. Probably I've missed something in my recording setup 'cause I hear clicks and pops when using axe as audio interface with any of buffer size (even with 1024 samples) or something goes wrong with usb driver.

Think I should check same procedure but through analog outputs or spdif with additional AI...

Or if I misunderstand something, please feel free to tell me about it))
 

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Your preset worked ok for me. I did two re-amp passes and they phase canceled with no changes like in your example. I don't have your IR of course, so I just substituted a random factory IR. One odd thing is you have a In USB block in your preset. That's not how I would do it. You'll find instructions on how to re-amp here:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-re-amping-tutorial.190686/

And, in case it helps, here's general Axe-FX recording info:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-for-the-recording-musician.177592/
 
GlennO said:
Your preset worked ok for me. I did two re-amp passes and they phase canceled with no changes like in your example. I don't have your IR of course, so I just substituted a random factory IR. One odd thing is you have a In USB block in your preset. That's not how I would do it. You'll find instructions on how to re-amp here:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-re-amping-tutorial.190686/

And, in case it helps, here's general Axe-FX recording info:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-for-the-recording-musician.177592/
Click to expand...
This issue doesn't happen every time but randomly, before this test in particular there were 2 or 3 attempts with no problems. First I've noticed it while reamping different DIs (as I said earlier sound changes sometimes on the go). Then I've just decided to check phase cancellation and it appeared straightaway.

Yes, I'm using USB Input on the grid while sending DIs to input 7 of axefx in DAW... Could this be the reason?

I've already checked your thread about recording but will get another try just in case.

Thank you for your help!
 
BTU said:
This issue doesn't happen every time but randomly, before this test in particular there were 2 or 3 attempts with no problems. First I've noticed it while reamping different DIs (as I said earlier sound changes sometimes on the go). Then I've just decided to check phase cancellation and it appeared straightaway.

Yes, I'm using USB Input on the grid while sending DIs to input 7 of axefx in DAW... Could this be the reason?

I've already checked your thread about recording but will get another try just in case.

Thank you for your help!
Click to expand...

inspect the waveforms - are they different in those sections or are they the same but offset in time relative to the rest?
 
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I don’t know if using the In USB block when reamping is causing the problem but see the tutorial above for a better way to do reamping.
 
northern_fox said:
inspect the waveforms - are they different in those sections or are they the same but offset in time relative to the rest?
Click to expand...
So if there is some data loss I will see same waveform but displaced on one or couple buffer length, right?
 
GlennO said:
I don’t know if using the In USB block when reamping is causing the problem but see the tutorial above for a better way to do reamping.
Click to expand...
I've always used the USB In block with no issues, I don't think that's the culprit.

My guess is DPC latency on the PC, see this article on how to check it and solve it: https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcar...at is DPC latency,processed in time (latency).

PS: if you have an Nvidia GPU try to disable its HD Audio driver from windows device manager, that's what usually causes a lot of issues with this stuff
 
For years I'm using the USB-In here for reamping without any troubles. I doubt this to be the reason of the phase issues.
 
DLC86 said:
PS: if you have an Nvidia GPU try to disable its HD Audio driver from windows device manager, that's what usually causes a lot of issues with this stuff
Click to expand...
Done it already couple weeks ago with no result. Yesterday I've disabled a built-in audio same way, then disabled hyperthreading feature and setted max performance mode in bios... Same clicks and pops are still there.

Usually I have scarlett 6i6 and AF3 connected simultaneously, but already have tried an axe only scenario - unfortunately it didn't help(
 
Funny but it works well with my wife's laptop (same memory config, less productive cpu, no gpu))) with buffer at 128 no clicks at all. At 64 samples/safe mode rare clicks only with plugins like multiband cmp engaged

I think I should track my guitars with it))
 
BTU said:
Funny but it works well with my wife's laptop (same memory config, less productive cpu, no gpu))) with buffer at 128 no clicks at all. At 64 samples/safe mode rare clicks only with plugins like multiband cmp engaged

I think I should track my guitars with it))
Click to expand...
That's another hint towards DPC latency, I'd try to find out which processes trigger the cpu spikes with LatencyMon.

PS: another thing to try is to change the usb port to which the axe is connected, disconnect other usb peripherals and avoid plugging it into a usb hub.
 
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DLC86 said:
That's another hint towards DPC latency, I'd try to find out which processes trigger the cpu spikes with LatencyMon
Click to expand...
Yep, I've studied some material on this topic and want to try this software.
Many thanks for your advices!
 
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