Strange dual amp stereo issue with IEMs (DL806 and Shure PSM300)

FarleyUK

FarleyUK

Inspired
Hi all,

I'm using dual amps and cabs in parallel, set via a mixer block to pan hard L and R. On my studio monitors, it sounds great; however, last night at rehearsal, the R side was very faint.

I'm going via a Mackie DL806 digital mixer. I run AUX 3 and 4 out in stereo to my Shure PSM300 IEM unit. I can see that the incoming L and R channels are even on the meters on both the DL806 and the PSM300. I've ensured the PSM300 is set to stereo mix and line level.
However, even when cranking the level of the right side amp, it's still not very obvious (even though the meters show an increase in level). This is across all 4 of my main presets.

Appreciate this likely isn't an issue with the setup of the AFX3, but just wondered if anyone had any advice or things to be aware of when using a setup like this....?

Preset is attached (and if you see something a bit odd, please let me know! I've just selected random IRs, as was using third party ones).
 

Attachments

  • MAIN.syx
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the DLM might have a separate channel pan for aux vs main faders. or it could be shared between mains and aux and your mains aren't panned. i haven't used one in a while, but check that.

easiest way to tell is start with a mono preset like factory 000 or something, then add a Delay block, set to Dual type, mix 100%, pan one delay hard left the other hard right, and set Left and Right delay times differently, like 500 ms left, 750 ms right.

then play a quick chord and mute. you should both hear left and right distinctly, and meters should show that too.

just because your meters are showing even levels doesn't mean stereo, it could mean the exact same Left signal going to both.

i guess also check Setup > Audio on the Axe front panel to make sure Output 1 (or whatever you're using) is actually set to stereo and not Copy L > R.
 
I noticed the amp and cab blocks are not evenly split up left and right before going into the mixer. I'm not sure if that matters. The MultDly is also panned hard left, which could unbalance things a bit?
 
Thanks both!

Can confirm that the output 1 is set to stereo on the AFX3, and while the DSM can be set to pan more to either side, I have the receiver set to dead centre mix.

Will try the suggestion of the amp and cab pan settings, and good catch on the Multi Delay.

Thanks - interested to know if there’s some weird issue I’ve overlooked regarding the mixer, as this is the first time I’ve used it (although seems simple enough). Will also try just removing it and hard panning the amps and cabs.
 
Are gain on the two dl806 channel set the same? Even if you make a stereo channel, the gains are still controlled separately.
 
FarleyUK said:
Thanks both!

Can confirm that the output 1 is set to stereo on the AFX3, and while the DSM can be set to pan more to either side, I have the receiver set to dead centre mix.

Will try the suggestion of the amp and cab pan settings, and good catch on the Multi Delay.

Thanks - interested to know if there’s some weird issue I’ve overlooked regarding the mixer, as this is the first time I’ve used it (although seems simple enough). Will also try just removing it and hard panning the amps and cabs.
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If out 1 to another set of speakers is correct, then the issue is most likely with the mixer.
 
Might sound silly but have run a simple stereo file into the iems to make sure it's not a problem with the iems (one of mine got blocked with wax recently), the cable (prone to go on headphones) or something in the mixer (tap points, dcas etc can be hidden if using a digital desk). If they are all ok obvs something axe related but I tend to work back to the source and start with some obvious things. Would look at the patch but away from home at mo
 
leelewis said:
Might sound silly but have run a simple stereo file into the iems to make sure it's not a problem with the iems (one of mine got blocked with wax recently), the cable (prone to go on headphones) or something in the mixer (tap points, dcas etc can be hidden if using a digital desk). If they are all ok obvs something axe related but I tend to work back to the source and start with some obvious things. Would look at the patch but away from home at mo
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I thought it might be the IEMs themselves as they're new, but the same happened when I used another set of headphones from the IEM receiver. Will see if I can send a stereo file through the mixer to the IEMs and see if that has the same issue. Good idea!
 
Does your receiver have a balance knob?

On mine (Audio Technica) there are 2 concentric knobs. The inner one turns it on and controls levels while the outer one controls balance of the 2 inputs.
 
unix-guy said:
Does your receiver have a balance knob?

On mine (Audio Technica) there are 2 concentric knobs. The inner one turns it on and controls levels while the outer one controls balance of the 2 inputs.
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Not a physical one - it's all within the Master Fader app. I've checked that the 2 AUX pans were set as centered, but will double-check!
 
FarleyUK said:
Not a physical one - it's all within the Master Fader app. I've checked that the 2 AUX pans were set as centered, but will double-check!
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Aux pans on the mixer? Why centered?

if it's centered, then the "left" data will be centered and the "right" data will be centered. this means it's not stereo because the left isn't going left, it's going to both left and right equally (centered).

you need to pan your Aux channels hard left and hard right to make your signal go hard left and hard right.
 
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chris said:
Aux pans on the mixer? Why centered?

if it's centered, then the "left" data will be centered and the "right" data will be centered. this means it's not stereo because the left isn't going left, it's going to both left and right equally (centered).

you need to pan your Aux channels hard left and hard right to make your signal go hard left and hard right.
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Hmmm…. I’ll double check this, but the left is definitely on the hard panned left.
 
FarleyUK said:
Hmmm…. I’ll double check this, but the left is definitely on the hard panned left.
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If the channel is centered it can’t be hard panned left, typically. Hard to say without seeing anything. If you can screenshot your mixer Aux page that would help.
 
chris said:
If the channel is centered it can’t be hard panned left, typically. Hard to say without seeing anything. If you can screenshot your mixer Aux page that would help.
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So I just took a look - it’s centred in my AUX output setup -

A770FB93-22AF-4BBB-BBD1-2D473B4EFD2F.jpeg

If I unlink channels 7 and 8, I can hard pan each left and right (this would be for everyone I think). However, when I link channels 7 and 8 to stereo, it shows centered again - but I’m definitely getting left on the left and right on the right, so assume the system automatically pans based on the incoming signal?
 
jimmynorrisjr said:
I noticed the amp and cab blocks are not evenly split up left and right before going into the mixer. I'm not sure if that matters. The MultDly is also panned hard left, which could unbalance things a bit?
Click to expand...
Just checked - can’t see it being hard panned…? Shows as centred with the repeats 1 and 3 on left, 2 and 4 on right.
 
FarleyUK said:
So I just took a look - it’s centred in my AUX output setup -

View attachment 105639

If I unlink channels 7 and 8, I can hard pan each left and right (this would be for everyone I think). However, when I link channels 7 and 8 to stereo, it shows centered again - but I’m definitely getting left on the left and right on the right, so assume the system automatically pans based on the incoming signal?
Click to expand...
Ahh I see how that mixer does it. That “pan” becomes a Balance control. It seems like it does hard pan left and right automatically with a stereo channel. Good to know.

please do the Dual Delay test i mentioned in a previous post. easiest way to determine Left and Right are panned.
 
your preset is definitely in stereo. i had to delete some blocks as they were tied to global, but it is stereo.

make sure you're using Out 1 to your mixer if that's what you used at rehearsal/home.
double check Out 1 is set to Stereo in Setup (i know we mentioned it but always good to check).
make sure the XLR cables from Out 1 actually work - swap them from Left and Right outputs to see if the problem follows the cable

other than that, the Axe should be set correctly, and it's something after it - most likely the mixer or a cable - causing the problem.
 
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