Stereo Vs Mono For Live Performances

[warlockII]

I run stereo whenever possible. IF it's a mono system, I ask them to only plug in one XLR. Sunglasses at night is the only patch that uses close to ping pong delay, the others are more subtle, but definitely make a difference.

 

[Scott Peterson]

appreciate the wisdom. just to be clear, are you advocating only running the L output to FOH or still running both L & R to FOH but setting up my presets as mono?

if the latter, is there any benefit to using a stereo delay?

I only run the L out.

 

[chris]

appreciate the wisdom. just to be clear, are you advocating only running the L output to FOH or still running both L & R to FOH but setting up my presets as mono?

if the latter, is there any benefit to using a stereo delay?

if left and right are the exact same signals, there's no reason to use 2 xlr cables as it's 2 of the same thing.

 

[ConstantM]

in my experience stereo is always better but it has to be implemented well because some stereo sounds/presets dont perform very well if summed or if you hear only one side. that being said stereo is not just spatial but it also provides better separation for the instruments. thats why stereo iems are always better than mono mixed ones

 

[Lolo-G]

Thanks to Scott Peterson for all his valuable advice.

For me in rehearsal or live it's mono in copy mode L and R to the sound system for all the reasons Scott mentioned.

At home, however, I always switch to stereo because it's super pleasant with headphones!
My panning effects are always limited in order to have patches that work well in mono.

 

[chris]

Thanks to Scott Peterson for all his valuable advice.

For me in rehearsal or live it's mono in copy mode L and R to the sound system for all the reasons Scott mentioned.

At home, however, I always switch to stereo because it's super pleasant with headphones!
My panning effects are always limited in order to have patches that work well in mono.

copy left to right is the same thing as just sending the left signal to the mixer. it's only useful if you're ALSO using the right signal to something else and want the same thing in both.

if you don't need that, you can leave the output set to stereo and just use the left output. nothing to change. use one cable out of left for mono, 2 cables out of both for stereo.

 

[Sauro_on_guitar]

I believe that some distinctions must be made: rock, hard rock, metal intended as "classical" genres, for example, do not necessarily require (live) to have a stereo guitar. But honestly there are musical genres where the stereo effect is part of what the guitar has to do in concert. I'm thinking, for example, of those who play (like me) in a tribute to Pink Floyd or of those who make more experimental music than 70s hard rock

 

[Cortlan GK]

I have a question. I use an enhancer block for wide sound expansion to create a stereo effect. The sound is then more pleasant than in the mono version. I then send the signal via XLR from two channels L and R. Can this cause problems for the sound engineer in live performances, as Scott Peterson wrote about?

 

[Lance Holland]

I have a question. I use an enhancer block for wide sound expansion to create a stereo effect. The sound is then more pleasant than in the mono version. I then send the signal via XLR from two channels L and R. Can this cause problems for the sound engineer in live performances, as Scott Peterson wrote about?

I really liked the enhancer block at home into headphones or my studio monitors but was concerned about it live. So, put the enhancer on a switch for our gig and I'm glad I did...it sounded terrible live. As soon as I shut it off, my normal tone returned.

I'm currently running stereo but I've been considering moving back to mono (for all the reasons above). We run our own mixer and I have full stereo but I'm concerned that it may not make sense.

 

[NattyBar]

Context is everything in whether mono or stereo is more appropriate... Applying broad-stroke as to which is better misses factors such as genre, venue, FOH tech, and the type of stereo effects being used (not all stereo effects are hard panned across the full spectrum).

In my experience the best approach is dialing in mono and stereo rigs so that you can adjust quickly and give yourself, FOH, and the audience the best experience - depending on the context you're working with.

 

[md1234]

So, put the enhancer on a switch for our gig and I'm glad I did...it sounded terrible live. As soon as I shut it off, my normal tone returned.

Can this cause problems for the sound engineer in live performances

Be aware of the fact that not every type in the Enhancer block is phase-cancellation proof.
Read more about this on the wiki: https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Enhancer_block#Avoid_phase_cancellation

 

[Vhalen50]

I run stereo but have everything mono except for a stereo delay and stereo chorus. I used to run dual cabs panned and it caused alot of issues with the soundguys that didnt want to follow the stage plot or would tell me "stereo is for try hards". I also used to use the enhancer block but i found that whenever i had to use a mono wedge, it would collapse and sound awful...so ive just got back down the middle with everything.

 

[mrtheedge2u]

I am a longtime performing guitarist and have programmed hundreds, if not thousands, of rigs for other musicians. Unless you are performing on a production-level event with a dialed-in full PA with a dedicated FOH engineer who can handle and request it, you should run mono live.

In a recorded mix? Stereo ALL DAY and ALL NIGHT. But live? 99.9999^% mono.

Most sound guys in a given room need more patience to dial in a stereo mix; they want to get your signal in and go. Stereo is an indulgence live unless you have a dedicated sound guy who understands what he is doing. The PA system must be optimized to deliver it to as wide a swath of the audience as possible. Panning two guitarists slightly one way and another is one thing; to accommodate stereo guitar effects is entirely another. They don't need the hassle and, in most cases, will not take the time to do it. The room and PA system might not be able to deliver across the full audience width and depth.

Why? Most often, if you have panned effects, the ONLY people who will hear that correctly are in the center 'sweet spot' for any given system. Big or small. It is not optimal for anyone sitting up front, in the back, or on the sides. They will hear either side of the effect more than the other, a wash of both in the back or none of it if they are upfront without center fill (in that case, it is mono 99% of the time). Only those lucky enough to be in the middle, side to side and front to back, will experience it how you intend to.

The Solution. Run mono, and check your effects for any phase issues. Let's look at a ping-pong delay as an example. Make one delay slightly louder and a bit softer so they tuck together in mono. Does it matter that it's not wide? No, not really in the end. Now, EVERYONE, no matter where they sit, hears what you intend and has no issues.

Pro Tip. Don't piss off the sound guy. Could you make his job as easy as possible in as little time as necessary to get him rolling? Please have your presets leveled and your solo boost set (+4db to +6db if running direct), and ensure he knows all this in advance.

What he said. All of it. Even the last line.

 

[weird guitar person]

Anyone keeping score?

"Stereo can be awesome live. Learn it and use it wisely!" ___

"You'll shoot your eye out kid!" ___

Stereo is an indulgence live unless you have a dedicated sound guy who understands what he is doing.

Here's to the live sound engineers that welcome the challenge of stereo and to not pissing off the rest.

 

[Dramelot]

Stereo or die.....

 

[macfly]

I've just begun experimenting with stereo--never used it live before. I decided to do this because I'm the only guitar in this new band. For most of what we do, guitar and keys works just fine, but for some songs that are all guitar, I think there will be some benefits. Mostly I'm just using different amps/cabs, and I still have a main one that is at about 2:00 left, with the other panned hard right. If FOH doesn't want to deal with stereo, the rig still works well. I do think I'm going to build a dedicated mono set of presets because sometimes we're going to have to use house sound. Nevertheless, here's what I think so far: I LOVE it in my IEM. Its the best sound I've ever had in my ears. However, from what I can gather now from two shows, and as mentioned above, the effect of it is pretty much lost on an audience in a club. I do have a great sound man that is interested in playing with it, but I think we are realistic in terms of expectations. I have the second (hard panned) amp on a slight delay, and it is on most of the time. On some songs tho, I will pull it down and start with just the main amp, and use the second amp to make things bigger. For example with the Green Day song "Holiday" I start with one amp, when it comes to the chorus I bring the second one up, and then for the interlude and solo I add a 2dB boost. Another is ACDC You Shook Me...I start with one amp and then add the second amp for the last part of the 1st verse...from there, both stay on.

 

[macfly]

I am a longtime performing guitarist and have programmed hundreds, if not thousands, of rigs for other musicians. Unless you are performing on a production-level event with a dialed-in full PA with a dedicated FOH engineer who can handle and request it, you should run mono live.

In a recorded mix? Stereo ALL DAY and ALL NIGHT. But live? 99.9999^% mono.

Most sound guys in a given room need more patience to dial in a stereo mix; they want to get your signal in and go. Stereo is an indulgence live unless you have a dedicated sound guy who understands what he is doing. The PA system must be optimized to deliver it to as wide a swath of the audience as possible. Panning two guitarists slightly one way and another is one thing; to accommodate stereo guitar effects is entirely another. They don't need the hassle and, in most cases, will not take the time to do it. The room and PA system might not be able to deliver across the full audience width and depth.

Why? Most often, if you have panned effects, the ONLY people who will hear that correctly are in the center 'sweet spot' for any given system. Big or small. It is not optimal for anyone sitting up front, in the back, or on the sides. They will hear either side of the effect more than the other, a wash of both in the back or none of it if they are upfront without center fill (in that case, it is mono 99% of the time). Only those lucky enough to be in the middle, side to side and front to back, will experience it how you intend to.

The Solution. Run mono, and check your effects for any phase issues. Let's look at a ping-pong delay as an example. Make one delay slightly louder and a bit softer so they tuck together in mono. Does it matter that it's not wide? No, not really in the end. Now, EVERYONE, no matter where they sit, hears what you intend and has no issues.

Pro Tip. Don't piss off the sound guy. Could you make his job as easy as possible in as little time as necessary to get him rolling? Please have your presets leveled and your solo boost set (+4db to +6db if running direct), and ensure he knows all this in advance.

Despite the fact that I'm dabbling in stereo for live, I absolutely agree with all of this. 99% of the time I'm going to be working with a guy that is on board with the idea, and if it is ultimately not worth it for him, I'll ditch it for FOH. I'm also going to need mono versions of my presets for the odd occasions that we use someone else. Also, when these presets move to my FM9, I don't think I'm going to have enough CPU to do all of this, so those will most likely be mono.

 

[dabird42]

Something occurred to me last night and I'd like a better understanding before I go and screw up a bunch of presets by making them stereo via the cab block.

I have 2 EV pcm-12mp speakers running out of Out2. The Out2 L goes to one speaker and the Out2 R goes to the other speaker. Out2 is set to copy Out1, so all my presets only show the Out1 block. I plan to use one EV as my backline and the other as my monitor. At some point in the future I may decide I don't need the monitor in front (small stages) and use both for backline but for the time being, this will be my setup.

So for the most part, the crowd in front of the stage will only be hearing the backline speaker. I'm also running stereo to FOH. I'm trying to wrap my head around how delays will work in this setup. For instance, If I use a Ping Pong delay that pans from L to R, the crowd in front of the stage will probably not hear one of the delays (the one hitting my monitor). They'll hear the delay originating from the backline speaker. But FOH will hear both of the delays L & R.

Is there a way to address this? How could I get my backline speaker (or backline and monitor) to project both delays L & R while FOH doesn't lose the stereo capabilities? Maybe I'm overthinking this. First gig w/ the FM9 coming at month's end. Not a lot of gigging experience so I'm a bit nervous...to say the least.

Any insights greatly appreciated.

I use output 1 via XLR to 2 FRFRs set behind me (settings "copy output1 to output 2)
Output 2 via XLR to FOH..
Then I get a splash of my guitar signal thru my vocal monitor.
Surrounded by my guitar sound... ITS KILLER!!!

 

[PSea]

I returned to a mono set up. Last thing I need going into a gig is a stubborn sound guy. Out1 L to FOH, Out2 L & R to my stage monitors. Appreciate the input from everyone! ...and it still sounds killer!

 

[Shepdoggiest]

Thoughts, please - I'm trying to gauge the benefit of what I'm gonna outline as being worth spending the time to do. I love the separation of 2 guitar Axe Fx amps, for the most part with just one guitar input. I've been thinking about the scenario of 2 guitar players with different amps playing the same part on L and R of stage and how much bigger that sounds to me, and that I've heard sound guys say the differing tones make one part sound so much bigger.

I'm working a trio to be an opener/possible headline for shows bigger than small bars. I'm considering a cab on each side of the stage that will be fed by a separate amp and tone from what's on my side of the stage. I'm also going to do a few loops in places to get 2 guitar parts that can't be done otherwise. My thought is the separation and spread of these tones can make for better clarity and give FOH a chance to make it even clearer. Here's a clip and a view of a preset I'm working on to emulate this onstage I used to record the 2nd clip. Thanks for anything you have for me.
https://filedn.com/lBWz9Sa82UTJ11C5mKLOtdh/Sound Clips/Stevie Intro.mp3

https://filedn.com/lBWz9Sa82UTJ11C5mKLOtdh/Sound Clips/Stevie Intro 2 Amps.mp3