Steep Learning Curve!

[funny_polymath]

I now advise new users to use Axe-Change. Don't try dialing in right away - instead, find some patches you like, and then analyze them. I am not a tweakmeister, but I usually can get what I want - but sometimes (like with a good Robin Trower tone), I can't. So, I ask here for a good patch, and then someone posts a *killer* patch, and I learn by looking under the hood. This is a great community and Axe-Change is a great resource.

 

[shasha]

I think the biggest misconception that new users make is that they pick the amp and cab model by the name and then try to make it sound how "they think" it should. While the amp models are what they are many times one must instead find the right starting point for the tone you are seeking. I've found many tones from amps that I would have never thought would give me what I want. Well actually that's the 2nd thing because first you actually have to know what you are looking for as mindlessly tweaking in hopes of stumbling onto a killer tone can happen, but IME that rarely happens.

I could not possibly agree more.

Now the biggest variable to that is the IR which to me really is one of those things that the individual is going to have to discover on their own. It's just like mic'ing a real cab; you figure out what combination of mics and distances you like and if you start with that you are going to be in the ball park most of the time. But if you aren't feeling it after some tweaking it's just best to move on to another model IMHO. People hear one instance of an amp in a particular setting and think that choosing the same amp model is going to sound exactly like that. There are so many variables to the equation that unless you know right off the bat what was going on you are going to have a bit of an uphill battle.

With that said I do think that it's exactly like anything else in life; you get out of it what you put into it. You put minimal effort into learning how to use the tool and you limit your craftsmanship. I will never understand people who blame the tool for not taking the time to learn how to use it to it's potential or at least to do the task at hand. And I will never understand the aversion to learning.

 

[don_joe]

I had a steep learning curve not because of the concept and operability of the AXE FX itself but beacuse of not nowing much about the tone shaping in general. Before AXE I had a simple chain: guitar --> guitar processor/foot controller --> Marshall Combo, that was it. I didn't expect having to learn the basics about tone shaping but I was forced to as I was not happy with the tones I got at the beginning. I'm happy that I've invested some time in reading stuff here at this forum and generally on internet, I've learned a lot of theory and tricks I would never come to myself. Not only stuff associated directly to AXE but how to set up a guitar sound chain in a real world. If you don't understand that, especially IRs, gain and EQ-ing, you can forget getting what you want out of AXE. Sure, I'm still learning and am happier now with results.

One more thing, recently I bought an Atomic CLR active cab and funnily, all the high gain presets I've prepared to play with my band (6160, Euro Uber, Angel Severe, etc.) using small speakers an headphones sounded really crappy. I was able to quickly save the rehearsal by using Triptik Modern, a preset I was experimenting with and never thought to use it for playing metal. It sounded that much awesome that I was complimented from the guys I played with. And I hardly could wait before to show off with the above mentioned amps...

 

[MrGuitarabuse]

Those who haven't tried them in a while should really have a fresh listen to the v14 factory presets.

The "raw amp" ones are better than ever by a considerable margin in my opinion.

thanks for the reminder.. should give them a try now when its easy to try/move around presets with axe manager...

 

[bgrizzmayne]

I was thinking about it last night and I just think the fact that the Axe gives you such incredible freedom and flexibility can make it tough. With 20 pathways comes some incredible unexplored territory, but a lot of things that just don't flat out work. Learning how to navigate to more successful paths is the key- I haven't really figured it out. But I see the potential, so i keep trying

 

[59Lespaul]

I would like to add a comment for the benefit of anybody reading this (and any similar) post who is considering an Axe but is put off by the idea of a "steep learning curve" (I was one of you BTW). I am not a tweaker by nature and I don't like to spend time trouble shooting computer/software related issues. Simply put my strong preference is to plug and play. I did finally pull the trigger on a new Axe II and have had mine for a couple of months now. My first pleasant surprise was how approachable and intuitive the Axe was right out of the box. I was able to dial in great sounds within my first 30 minutes. I am a big fan of a lot of the factory presets (I am still running 13.07) and believe that anybody who knows how to dial in a decent tone on a conventional tube amp will easily be able to do the same with the Axe. The big difference is where you can go from there (and in this regard I'm not even beginning to scratch the surface). Too me one of the greatest collateral benefits of the Axe is the opportunity it presents to LEARN. I can safely say that I have learned more about amps, and signal chain, and EQing, etc. in the past few months than I have in the past 30 years. So if you are putting off taking the plunge for fear of a STEEP LEARNING CURVE, take the plunge! You wont regret it.

 

[Mack]

Those who haven't tried them in a while should really have a fresh listen to the v14 factory presets.

The "raw amp" ones are better than ever by a considerable margin in my opinion.

Where do I get the v14 factory presets? The ones on the webpage are still the same v12 presets. I checked the file in case the text is not updated but it's the same file as a few months ago (316,537 bytes).

Thanks in advance.

 

[mjlongo]

Not use drive blocks? Hawg warsh!

I'll use anything and everything in this little black box to achieve my desired tone(s). That's what it's all there for, isn't it?

If I need it, I'll use it. If I don't, I won't, but a blanket suggestion that drives aren't needed at all is just silly. I mainly create and use high gain patches, *extreme* high gain in some cases (think heavily over driven ADA MP1 for 80's style tones) so drive blocks are nearly a requirement for most amps in order to get the effect I want.

My apologies if my comment came across as a blanket statement. It was meant to be a personal opinion on the use of the drive section.

I owned an MP1 for a long time. TWO in fact. Still kinda miss it sometimes. It had a GREAT chorus effect! I first used it with a power amp then I drove the power amp section of a regular amp with it. To say that a drive block is NECESSARY to get sounds similar to the MP1 is, to use your words, Hawg Wash. It can easily be achieved with just the distortion available in many of the amp blocks alone! I can fully appreciate the need outside the AXE FX to use a drive in conjunction with a mid gained amp to get that tone. If one wants to replicate THAT in the Axe, by all means do so! It certainly is fun to mimic real life setups, but that misses my point. There is plenty of gain to be had in the amp blocks alone as to negate the need for more distortion via a drive block.

While I respect your opinion, I strongly disagree. Most people don't use the drive block simply for the extra gain, they do it for the tone that the drive pedal adds. In fact, 95% of the time I use the 808 I leave the gain around 1-10 MAX. I like the saturation and bite it adds to the tone, which would be IMPOSSIBLE to dial in with just the amp block. Especially considering each drive pedal has its own unique sound.

I can totally understand the desire to use the drive pedal as an extra bit of eq or touch of grit, whatever. I firmly believe however that these necessities are waaayyy more marketing hocus pocus and cultural voodoo than actual needs and requirements to achieving a useful tone. The standard High, Mid, Low controls have always been more than enough EQ. Need more High? Turn up the friggen knob labeled High!! Lets face it, the only people who care about this level of minutia are us guitar players! The reality is that it all gets mostly lost within the context of a band and definitely if there are two guitars! Do we really need to have that insignificant, c**t-hair amount of whatever that a drive is going to give an already distorted amp? We can't seem to play a f**king note on the guitar unless we have that extra 2% of eq. Seriously?? :lol My money says no. But here again.....it's purely my opinion and I will absolutely not begrudge anyone else the pleasure they get from pursuing their own tone endeavors.

Yeah, I'm with Shredder3386. I use drives with minimal gain and very high level for how they interact with the amp, rather than the additional gain. Playing modern metal, you really need that reverse-mid-scoop and super-hot signal hitting the front of the amp.

With the Axe you could no doubt do similar with GEQ and things, but it just works with an 808 or a BB or so on... that's the way you hit a real 5150. The natural EQ of the drives is awesomely suited to the front end of an amp.

See my last comment for most of my opinion. I'll just say again that I feel there is more than plenty of gain on tap with the amps in the Axe (and many on "real" amps for that matter) as to warrant the use of a drive as a moot point. My "real" amps that get the most use are an early 5150 and a Marshall DSL2000. I play(ed) in all-original and cover metal bands I've personally never felt the need to push those amps with a drive pedal and I HAVE tried it on several occasions. I guess I carry over that tradition or personal technique inside the Axe as well.

Hell, I could be the weird one in all of this. I guess I'm entrenched in the camp that finds any "extra stuff" to just get in the way. I'm a less-is-more, plug-in-and-go-for-it kind of player these days.

Hey....great discussion!!! Do I need to repeat that this is my opinion?

 

[GreatGreen]

The thing about the Axe is that the learning curve is only as hard as you make it on yourself. Want to connect to a real poweramp and cab? Put 1 Amp block on the grid and you only need to adjust the gain, tonestack, and master controls. That's it.

Likewise, you can get as complicated as you want with multiple amps and effects and synths that all slowly engage and disengage by various degrees based on multiple factors, not the least of which being how hard you play and how high the notes you're playing are.

The big thing to note is that just about everything in the Axe is completely modular and can be removed and ignored with zero consequences. It's perfectly ok to start small and simple and work your way up to super complex refrigerator rack type rigs with automation and crazy signal routing and blending, etc.

 

[Jbmetal]

After going through the same thing for the first month or more of having my unit, I came to the conclusion that the IR makes the biggest difference. I would dial something in and think, "That sounds great!" then come back the next day and hate it. Then I found OwnHammer. Boom; life changed. My favorite IRs of all time are now the Diezel HGE 8ohm IRs. The low and mid-gain guys, I feel, have it easy because (especially for clean sounds) the IR makes very little difference, but it is absolutely essential to a high gain tone to find the right one for you.

TL;DR: Try Ownhammer. Kevin knows how to kick ass and does so with gusto.

 

[funny_polymath]

I may evolve on this, but so far I don't use drives either - I use amps for drive - after all, drive pedals were invented to simulate various amounts of amp torture anyway... But I suppose I'll get to playing with them eventually, for some of the few tones I don't have yet - like the 'violin-like' Big Muff tone, etc.

+1.

I don't see any point in using the drives at all actually! There is so much gain to be had from the amp choices as to render anything in the drive block utterly useless! Why waste the CPU, increase the need for tweaking and use up the grid space? Of course this is purely my opinion and I am glad that the Axe gives us all of these choices.