Speaker Impedance Curve - I can't get it to work today

TravisG406

TravisG406

Power User
I was playing around on my FM9 and discovered the SIC settings were not making an audible difference. I then switched to my III and had the same issue while creating a new preset to test. I have auto Dyna-Cab IC turned off but am using a user IR. I choose different curves and it doesn't make a difference. I tried the legacy IR bank. I went into Setup > Global Settings and tried changing there - also doesn't make a difference. I switched to a Dyna-Cab and it was the same thing. What am I missing? Thanks!
 
The behavior for the global setting is dumb because it only applies to new amp models selected, not existing presets.

So if your preset X has value A for speaker impedance curve, you change global setting to curve B, you need to load another amp model in your preset X Amp block, then it should track with the global setting.

Do note that the speaker impedance curve changes are often more felt than heard.

Try resetting your amp block channels and then try again. Set global setting to Default.
 
laxu said:
The behavior for the global setting is dumb because it only applies to new amp models selected, not existing presets.

So if your preset X has value A for speaker impedance curve, you change global setting to curve B, you need to load another amp model in your preset X Amp block, then it should track with the global setting.

Do note that the speaker impedance curve changes are often more felt than heard.

Try resetting your amp block channels and then try again. Set global setting to Default.
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That was it, thanks!!
 
TravisG406 said:
That was it, thanks!!
Click to expand...
I am having the same problem. A couple of times it has worked and heard a big change but generally has not and dont know why. am on the latest firmware

Would prefer not to change global settings but makes no difference when i do even following the advice that fixed the problem for the other user

Am trying change the sic setting with dyna cabs and legacy ir and have also reset all the amp blocks

This is me being daft but if someone would be kind enough to put me out of my misery it would be much appreciated am a total newbie with fractal, many thanks
 
laxu said:
The behavior for the global setting is dumb because it only applies to new amp models selected, not existing presets.
Click to expand...
Makes sense actually, from what I've deduced:

  • If I save a specific SIC in a preset/scene with cab mode = "legacy" or, cab mode = "DC" + AutoDCImp "OFF" in the amp model speaker page, then, upon preset recall, I'll get the SIC that I specifically saved to that preset (makes sense since I purposely saved that specific SIC there initially in a legacy cab mode or in a DC cab mode wit AutoDCImp "OFF").
  • If I select a new amp model in a preset/scene also with cab mode = "legacy" or, cab mode = "DC" + AutoDCImp "OFF" in the amp model speaker page, then the global Spkr Imp Curve determines the SIC yielded upon amp model select as follows:
    • Global Spkr Imp Curve = "Default" will yield the SIC values to which the selected amp model defaults (auditioning varying amp models will yield varying SIC curves for each selected amp model, auditioning varying cab models will not vary the SIC if the amp model remains the same)
    • Global Spkr Imp Curve = "Specific Curve Selection" will yield the selected consistent SIC curve across varying selected amp or cab models (good for auditioning amps/cabs while keeping SIC consistent).
  • In presets/scenes with cab mode = "DC" + AutoDCImp "ON" in the amp1 block speaker page:
    • SIC curve will remain consistent to an authentic value associated to the DC cab selected (in slot1) while auditioning various amp1 block models.
    • SIC curve will change while auditioning varying DC cab models, to an authentic value associated to each successively selected slot1 DC cab model.
​
So SIC behavior is different depending on which of the 3 scenarios above you are in. If the curve changes a lot, I can definitely hear it.​
​
 
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sprint said:
Makes sense actually, from what I've deduced:

  • If I save a specific SIC in a preset/scene with cab mode = "legacy" or, cab mode = "DC" + AutoDCImp "OFF" in the amp model speaker page, then, upon preset recall, I'll get the SIC that I specifically saved to that preset (makes sense since I purposely saved that specific SIC there initially in a legacy cab mode or in a DC cab mode wit AutoDCImp "OFF").
  • If I select a new amp model in a preset/scene also with cab mode = "legacy" or, cab mode = "DC" + AutoDCImp "OFF" in the amp model speaker page, then the global Spkr Imp Curve determines the SIC yielded upon amp model select as follows:
    • Global Spkr Imp Curve = "Default" will yield the SIC values to which the selected amp model defaults (auditioning varying amp models will yield varying SIC curves for each selected amp model, auditioning varying cab models will not vary the SIC if the amp model remains the same)
    • Global Spkr Imp Curve = "Specific Curve Selection" will yield the selected consistent SIC curve across varying selected amp or cab models (good for auditioning amps/cabs while keeping SIC consistent).
  • In presets/scenes with cab mode = "DC" + AutoDCImp "ON" in the amp1 block speaker page:
    • SIC curve will remain consistent to an authentic value associated to the DC cab selected (in slot1) while auditioning various amp1 block models.
    • SIC curve will change while auditioning varying DC cab models, to an authentic value associated to each successively selected slot1 DC cab model.
​
So SIC behavior is different depending on which of the 3 scenarios above you are in. If the curve changes a lot, I can definitely hear it.​
​
Click to expand...
If global speaker impedance curve simply overrides whatever is used in a preset then that would be much simpler and consistent. You are likely to set the global setting when running the Fractal into a poweramp and guitar cab.

To me it should be what the name says: global = applies to everything. Not "global, if these conditions are met" It just feels somehow overengineered for no good reason.
 
laxu said:
If global speaker impedance curve simply overrides whatever is used in a preset then that would be much simpler
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Agreed it would be simpler as the number of nuances to SIC handling is quite heavy and not so obvious to keep straight (for me anyway - why I posted all the added verbiage above to clarify for others here seeming in need), however, full preset override would not work in current form because users can save specific custom SIC curve values in presets where as the global setting currently only has canned curve options - they'd have to put an "ignore global" value in the global drop down (or an on/off for the global override) which would give us the desired simplification while still allowing ability to save custom SIC values in presets without having them overridden by a selected global canned curve (or overridden by an amp default curve triggered by "default" selected in global).
 
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sprint said:
Agreed it would be simpler as the number of nuances to SIC handling is quite heavy and not so obvious to keep straight (for me anyway - why I posted all the added verbiage above to clarify for others here seeming in need), however, full preset override would not work in current form because users can save specific custom SIC curve values in presets where as the global setting currently only has canned curve options - they'd have to put an "ignore global" value in the global drop down (or an on/off for the global override) which would give us the desired simplification while still allowing ability to save custom SIC values in presets without having them overridden by a selected global canned curve (or overridden by an amp default curve triggered by "default" selected in global).
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Nah it doesn't need to be that complicated. It could be something as simple as "if global setting is something other than default, ignore everything else SIC related the user might have configured in a preset". Then just show that those options are disabled now.
 
laxu said:
could be something as simple as "if global setting is something other than default, ignore everything else SIC related the user might have configured in a preset"
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not quite - the global "default" selection currently means pull in the amp's default SIC curve. There are users (like me) who will actually type in custom values for the various specific curve frequencies and save those in the preset (typically when using an external cab that one knows the SIC values for). In that case, global's current "default" selection result is also not desired as it would cause the custom entered values to be overridden by the amp's default curve. If changing the global SIC functon to override presets, a global value other than "default" and other than a specific curve selection would be needed - (ie: an "ignore" or "Off" selection as I mentioned above) to avoid custom entered/saved curve values from being overridden.

Still a fairly simple change: Make the global override presets, and be able to disable/turn off the global completely.
 
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sprint said:
not quite - the global "default" selection currently means pull in the amp's default SIC curve. There are users (like me) who will actually type in custom values for the various specific curve frequencies and save those in the preset (typically when using an external cab that one knows the SIC values for). In that case, global's current "default" selection result is also not desired as it would cause the custom entered values to be overridden by the amp's default curve. If changing the global SIC functon to override presets, a global value other than "default" and other than a specific curve selection would be needed - (ie: an "ignore" or "Off" selection as I mentioned above) to avoid custom entered/saved curve values from being overridden.

Still a fairly simple change: Make the global override presets, and be able to disable/turn off the global completely.
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Isn't the override desired in this case? It does not meant that the values you saved in your preset are gone, they just won't be used. If you rely on custom speaker impedance curve settings, you simply don't use the global option.

Sure, having a "custom value" setting in the global options would be useful, same way you can set the global EQ for example. But these sort of things are not always perfect and don't cover every usecase.

I'm mainly arguing for more expected behavior for the global setting - a simple override no matter what else the user has set up in their presets, whether they have existing presets or load in new amp models. Then the option is no different from "Poweramp modeling on/off" or "Cab sim on/off" type global settings.
 
laxu said:
If you rely on custom speaker impedance curve settings, you simply don't use the global option
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Correct - so the global override needs to have some sort of "off" / "ignore" selection to it if its changed to apply to presets also (ON+select from dropdown, or OFF(don't override))

laxu said:
Sure, having a "custom value" setting in the global options would be useful
Click to expand...
I was not suggesting having custom curve values in global (tho that's an interesting idea I'd not considered) - just making the point that: if the current SIC global override is expanded to apply to presets as you suggest (which is fine imo), it needs to be able to be turned off (don't overide, leave preset as saved), as opposed to retaining the sic global's current "always overriding" behavior when selecting a different amp model in legacy cab mode or in DC cab mode with Auto=OFF -

Putting an "off"/"ignore" value in the sic global's override dropdown would be an easy way to get the "off" option included (no need to have an added on/off switch separate from the dropdown).

laxu said:
the option is no different from "Poweramp modeling on/off"
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The added need for the user to select a listed curve or "default to amp's native curve" means it won't be a simple on/off global like P.A. on/off - but still pretty simple, and without the current confusion of it not applying to presets when turned on.


I think we're on the same page - sorry, my communications are wordy and overly precise - can't help it - way I'm wired
 
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sprint said:
Correct - so the global override needs to have some sort of "off" / "ignore" selection to it if its changed to apply to presets also (ON+select from dropdown, or OFF(don't override))
Click to expand...

The off setting is simply "Default", which might be better called "Use values in preset". Then there's exactly two ways it could work:

1. "Use preset values" aka "Default". Whatever you have set in the preset, whether it's Dyna-Cab auto-SIC, custom SIC values in Amp block, or one of the preset SICs selected in Amp block.
2. Override with selected selected global SIC.
 
laxu said:
The off setting is simply "Default", which might be better called "Use values in preset". Then there's exactly two ways it could work:

1. "Use preset values" aka "Default". Whatever you have set in the preset, whether it's Dyna-Cab auto-SIC, custom SIC values in Amp block, or one of the preset SICs selected in Amp block.
2. Override with selected selected global SIC.
Click to expand...
✅, n if someone wants the amp-default curve values they can reset the amp block or reselect the amp.

Sold! this one can now be assigned to one of our crackerjack programmers!

next!
 
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