Some Thoughts On Tone & Technique

[TSJMajesty]

I went in search of a better amp tone to substitute into the "Ma The Meatloaf..." preset, into the Lead FX scene 5, and I tried many amps, looking toward the high-gain types, but I didn't want too "raspy" of a sound. Not surprising, I landed on the JPIIC Red Shred model, and tonight, picking up the guitar with a fresh set of strings, noodling around playing simple single-note stuff, it is one of the sweetest lead tones I've found!

But it's not entirely unforgiving, in that the dissonance produced if you don't transfer from one string to another perfectly, will be rather pronounced. So it requires accurate technique. But DAMN it sounds so freaking GOOD. Nice and creamy.

So it left me wondering why so many guitarists always talk about EOB tones sounding so nice, a tone I really don't care for much at all. But that type of tone is more forgiving in that it doesn't make that sloppy-technique nearly as glaring, which is maybe the real appeal...? Or a part of it? Anyway... Not trying to bust on others' choice of tones...

The notes on this JPIIC tone also bloom into harmonics, which make held notes sound oh so sweet! Just a pleasure to play, but really make you work a bit harder to make sure each note you play is truly only one note. To be fair, the harmonics probably have a lot to do with the Majesty as well, and hearing them in so many of Petrucci's solos is one of the reasons I chase his sound. It's probably my favorite aspect of a sweet guitar tone!

Another thing I've noticed... I've now set my action as low as possible, and the neck with just a touch of relief (so the action can be set very low before you get too much string buzz.) This certainly helps, since your fingers don't have to work as hard, but it also means that when you release a note on one string to play a note on another string, you only want to lift your finger just enough off the fret to stop its vibration, but no further. Getting that part of your technique down can also be challenging, because it's such a slight amount, and even lifting your finger too high, can let the note ring. And with a high gain tone, just your finger leaving contact with the string can be enough to allow the string to ring, causing that dissonance I mentioned.

A bit more work for sure, but the payoff can be the sweetest, singing melodies one can get from a guitar.

 

[secondwindow]

I went in search of a better amp tone to substitute into the "Ma The Meatloaf..." preset, into the Lead FX scene 5, and I tried many amps, looking toward the high-gain types, but I didn't want too "raspy" of a sound. Not surprising, I landed on the JPIIC Red Shred model, and tonight, picking up the guitar with a fresh set of strings, noodling around playing simple single-note stuff, it is one of the sweetest lead tones I've found!

But it's not entirely unforgiving, in that the dissonance produced if you don't transfer from one string to another perfectly, will be rather pronounced. So it requires accurate technique. But DAMN it sounds so freaking GOOD. Nice and creamy.

So it left me wondering why so many guitarists always talk about EOB tones sounding so nice, a tone I really don't care for much at all. But that type of tone is more forgiving in that it doesn't make that sloppy-technique nearly as glaring, which is maybe the real appeal...? Or a part of it? Anyway... Not trying to bust on others' choice of tones...

The notes on this JPIIC tone also bloom into harmonics, which make held notes sound oh so sweet! Just a pleasure to play, but really make you work a bit harder to make sure each note you play is truly only one note. To be fair, the harmonics probably have a lot to do with the Majesty as well, and hearing them in so many of Petrucci's solos is one of the reasons I chase his sound. It's probably my favorite aspect of a sweet guitar tone!

Another thing I've noticed... I've now set my action as low as possible, and the neck with just a touch of relief (so the action can be set very low before you get too much string buzz.) This certainly helps, since your fingers don't have to work as hard, but it also means that when you release a note on one string to play a note on another string, you only want to lift your finger just enough off the fret to stop its vibration, but no further. Getting that part of your technique down can also be challenging, because it's such a slight amount, and even lifting your finger too high, can let the note ring. And with a high gain tone, just your finger leaving contact with the string can be enough to allow the string to ring, causing that dissonance I mentioned.

A bit more work for sure, but the payoff can be the sweetest, singing melodies one can get from a guitar.

Glad you’re liking your new lead tone! I’ll have to check out the JPIIC Red Shred.

For me, the appeal of a good EoB tone is the dynamics you can get depending on the force of your attack on the strings - going from cleanish to grittier. And it takes finesse to keep the attack consistent so the dynamics aren’t all over the place. I don’t know that EoB tones are so much masking poor technique, but high gain tones can really let me know when I’m playing too loose.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I guess I haven't explored playing-dynamics all that much, but I can relate to what you're saying. High gain tones have a lot of compression.
I didn't mean that EoB tones mask sloppy technique so much, but that when you play 2 or more notes at the same time, the higher the gain, the more you hear the overtones, and if the notes are only say, 1 step apart, they sound really bad. Less so, with less distortion.

I remember EVH once saying in an interview he never used 7th or 9th chords (not sure of the exact chord he mentioned.) He basically said they sounded like shit through a distorted amp. Which is true to a certain degree. Play a 6/9 chord through a clean amp vs. a distorted one, and that's kinda my point.

 

[secondwindow]

I guess I haven't explored playing-dynamics all that much, but I can relate to what you're saying. High gain tones have a lot of compression.
I didn't mean that EoB tones mask sloppy technique so much, but that when you play 2 or more notes at the same time, the higher the gain, the more you hear the overtones, and if the notes are only say, 1 step apart, they sound really bad. Less so, with less distortion.

I remember EVH once saying in an interview he never used 7th or 9th chords (not sure of the exact chord he mentioned.) He basically said they sounded like shit through a distorted amp. Which is true to a certain degree. Play a 6/9 chord through a clean amp vs. a distorted one, and that's kinda my point.

Yeah, I see what you mean. It can be a challenge to play complex-ish chords if there’s very much gain. Suspended chords can sound good with a lot of drive, I think. I often just play diads when using a tone that’s gain-y - leave out the root of a flat 7 chord, etc.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I believe it has something to with how the overtones sound when the waves have been clipped.
But whatever it is, certain notes when played together, how their sound waves overlap can either be pleasing or not. Obviously it's how we get chords.
I wish I understood sound waves better, because overtones and harmonics fascinate me. I get some of the math and science behind it, but the first time I heard an overtone that blew my mind was when I was listening to Working Man by Rush. At the end of the song, Alex Lifeson does this 1 step bend where the note is bent up to a pitch that is a minor third lower than the next note he plays, and plays that higher note together with the bent note. But on each successive bend, he's still holding the higher note, and as the lower note is bent upward, you can hear an overtone that goes downward in pitch!
I probably listened to that song, and that bend, at least 50 times before I ever even noticed that overtone being produced, and it just boggled my mind. I wish I understood exactly how it's happening, but I suppose it's something like when you see a spoked wheel spinning, yet at different speeds the spokes appear to align, then rotate in the opposite direction. I think it's some type of aliasing, if that's the correct term...?
If anyone can explain that in layman's terms, I'd love to get a better understanding of what's happening.

 

[marsonic]

I suppose it's something like when you see a spoked wheel spinning, yet at different speeds the spokes appear to align, then rotate in the opposite direction. I think it's some type of aliasing, if that's the correct term...?
If anyone can explain that in layman's terms, I'd love to get a better understanding of what's happening.

It's not aliasing, but yes...it is a similar effect.

What's actually happening with the spoked wheel is that there's a blinking light shining on the wheels. You have never seen it in sun/moon light. You've seen it at night under artificial lights that actually blink too fast to notice. In that case, you're seeing something like stop-motion animation where each successive "frame" happens to have a spoke (not necessarily the same one) that's not quite in the same position as the last "frame". So, that effect happens visually when the rotation of the wheel and the flashing of the lights happen at basically the same speed (or a multiple based on the number of spokes) and are almost perfectly in phase with each other, but the wheel is just a bit slower.

Something very similar happens with sound frequencies that are similar in certain ways. They're called "beats", which has nothing to do with the thing you keep time with nor the accompaniment of a hip-hop track. It's actually a technical term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_(acoustics)

And, yes, it's very closely related to a harmonic (or overtone).

 

[secondwindow]

It's not aliasing, but yes...it is a similar effect.

What's actually happening with the spoked wheel is that there's a blinking light shining on the wheels. You have never seen it in sun/moon light. You've seen it at night under artificial lights that actually blink too fast to notice. In that case, you're seeing something like stop-motion animation where each successive "frame" happens to have a spoke (not necessarily the same one) that's not quite in the same position as the last "frame". So, that effect happens visually when the rotation of the wheel and the flashing of the lights happen at basically the same speed (or a multiple based on the number of spokes) and are almost perfectly in phase with each other, but the wheel is just a bit slower.

Something very similar happens with sound frequencies that are similar in certain ways. They're called "beats", which has nothing to do with the thing you keep time with nor the accompaniment of a hip-hop track. It's actually a technical term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_(acoustics)

And, yes, it's very closely related to a harmonic (or overtone).

Good explanation!

 

[unix-guy]

The general rule of thumb is the the more Gain you use the more you can "hide" poor technique. This is primary reason most teachers will tell you to practice with a clean tone.

The specific issue you're talking with dissonance is a case where the more gain you use the worse it will probably sound. The cleaner tones seem to be more "forgiving" of this as the gain seems to exacerbate the previously mentioned "beating" of notes against each other.

As far as your comment about your fret hand fingers, this is where pick hand muting/damping will be very important.

 

[la szum]

I believe it has something to with how the overtones sound when the waves have been clipped.
But whatever it is, certain notes when played together, how their sound waves overlap can either be pleasing or not. Obviously it's how we get chords.
I wish I understood sound waves better, because overtones and harmonics fascinate me. I get some of the math and science behind it, but the first time I heard an overtone that blew my mind was when I was listening to Working Man by Rush. At the end of the song, Alex Lifeson does this 1 step bend where the note is bent up to a pitch that is a minor third lower than the next note he plays, and plays that higher note together with the bent note. But on each successive bend, he's still holding the higher note, and as the lower note is bent upward, you can hear an overtone that goes downward in pitch!
I probably listened to that song, and that bend, at least 50 times before I ever even noticed that overtone being produced, and it just boggled my mind. I wish I understood exactly how it's happening, but I suppose it's something like when you see a spoked wheel spinning, yet at different speeds the spokes appear to align, then rotate in the opposite direction. I think it's some type of aliasing, if that's the correct term...?
If anyone can explain that in layman's terms, I'd love to get a better understanding of what's happening.

I love that lick.

That's a song I found that the Plexi 100 amp models nail to a T. I had never really messed with
that song much, since it is one of the easier Rush tunes to play, but in the past month I have
played along to it more than any other song.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I love that lick.

That's a song I found that the Plexi 100 amp models nail to a T. I had never really messed with
that song much, since it is one of the easier Rush tunes to play, but in the past month I have
played along to it more than any other song.

You can hear Jimmy Page in the solo. Alex was still finding his own style. Talk about radio airplay though!

 

[Bakerman]

Working Man by Rush. At the end of the song, Alex Lifeson does this 1 step bend where the note is bent up to a pitch that is a minor third lower than the next note he plays, and plays that higher note together with the bent note. But on each successive bend, he's still holding the higher note, and as the lower note is bent upward, you can hear an overtone that goes downward in pitch!

Sending two tones (where one isn't an integer multiple of the other) through distortion generates difference frequencies that wouldn't be there with a completely clean sound.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermodulation

The falling note you mentioned goes from around D to Bb, because the A note with D ringing above it produces a difference tone around 147 Hz (587 - 440), and that difference is reduced to ~117 Hz as the A is bent up to Bb (if you bend slightly more than 100 cents to get a pure major third).

There's also a difference tone rising from D to F (12th-15th fret on D string), a difference tone between the D fundamental and the second harmonic (1 octave up) of the A.

 

[Dave Merrill]

^^^ this.

 

[jamesmarshall]

It is all about your picking and muting technique.
If you let the first and minor third ring out across strings with distortion you will have intermodulation and it will become dissonant.

I always practice my triads and sweeping techniques with a clean tone, first to get the clean picking and finger movements down. Then turn the distortion up and get your string muting (using both hands to mute unpicked notes) down.

James

 

[Ron_R]

It is all about your picking and muting technique.
If you let the first and minor third ring out across strings with distortion you will have intermodulation and it will become dissonant.

I always practice my triads and sweeping techniques with a clean tone, first to get the clean picking and finger movements down. Then turn the distortion up and get your string muting (using both hands to mute unpicked notes) down.

James

Exactly right. If you are palm muting effectively, those overtones will not happen and the sound will ring true.