Some questions before buying two Verve 8ma

Michele Guzzini

Michele Guzzini

Inspired
Actually I'm using the Axe-fx with my Engl 840/50 and a self made 2x12 (loaded with Celestion V30s). The temptation to buy a pair of Verve 8ma is big, maybe because the FBT's factory is just 5 minutes away from me 8)
I read this thread by Scott, but I have some questions:

1) Do they have thump?
2) How do they feel under your fingers? Is it like playing with a real amp?
3) Are they powerful enough to self monitor on small/medium stages? (I play in a progressive/hard rock band)

I don't consider the idea of getting only a 12ma because I like to play with stereo effects, maybe two of them but they are soooo big and heavy.....

Thank you ;)
 
I was torn between the two options and got the 12ma, instead of the two 8mas. The 12mas are not very big at all, about the same as a 1x12 combo, in a slightly more rectangular shape (less square). The 12ma has all the thump I need, and then some. I am even playing bass with a ROLAND GR-55 through it! Adding a 2nd 12ma is in my plans, and in the end is not that much more than the two 8mas.
 
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Straight up:

No they certainly do not thump. It is not really possible because of their frequency response.

They sound like whatever you put into them reasonably well. Like a 'real' amp? Like a real well Mic'd amp assuming you use ir's with a Mic component.

Powerful enough... probably enough to hear, but you won't feel it in your bones.

IMHO. Ymmv.
 
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If i set my sounds with the 8ma(s) that have low response under 100hz, when i go FOH is there the risk that my sounds become flubby and with too basses? Do I need to cut the lows with global eq?
 
killo said:
If i set my sounds with the 8ma(s) that have low response under 100hz, when i go FOH is there the risk that my sounds become flubby and with too basses? Do I need to cut the lows with global eq?
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The 8mA's are probably fine if you don't tweak your sounds on them. I mean, any monitor you use to tweak your sounds on will lead you to adjust your patches to suit the character of that particular monitor. Then, when you go to FOH, if the FOH system is radically different from your monitor, you will have radically different FOH sounds. The idea therefore is to go for the monitor that is closest to what the average FOH system sounds like. And since all FOH systems are different, this is by definition not an exact science. However, you *can* try to get a monitor that is as neutral as possible if you're going to tweak your patches using it.

I tweak my patches with a pair of 12mA's and even there I get surprises when I go FOH. The 12mA's have strong mids, so I have a natural tendency to add some low end to my presets. Then, when I go FOH, it's actually too much low end. Same probably goes for high end, but to a lesser extent. Then, I use the global Out 1 EQ to dial out some of that excess low end. You see the point... with 8mA's you would potentially end up with presets that greatly exaggerate the low end, and then when you go FOH, it would be excessive.

The main point is this: 8mA's are probably great for self-monitoring, but be careful if you dial in your presets using them.
 
killo said:
If i set my sounds with the 8ma(s) that have low response under 100hz, when i go FOH is there the risk that my sounds become flubby and with too basses? Do I need to cut the lows with global eq?
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You can HEAR the lows, but they won't shake your core. When I say they don't have much under 100Hz, I mean that they are rolled off. The frequencies are there, you will HEAR them. But not at levels that will make your toes curl.

These are powered monitors... not studio level FRFR. You don't tune your presets to these, you use them live to hear yourself.

If you need to FEEL it shake your pants (note the 8ma is freaking LOUD) then the 12ma is a better FBT option of the two.

Let's remember this - the 8ma is VERY VERY loud, and sounds really good for a) their size; b) the money. Excellent product, though you need the carry bag. You will hear them even on LOUD stages. You will NOT *feel* them shake your loins though.
 
The pants shaking is not my need, i thought that i could use the 8ma's for live monitoring and even for tweaking, since i don't have a studio FRFR. So i'm trying to find what is the best compromise for my needs.
 
I don't know what is considered a small, medium, or large stage by anyone else's standards, but the most common stage monitor arrangement I see for guitarists around town is from one to three wedges, with the average being two. And I'm talking about wedges the size of the 12ma. I have a Marshall 1960A 4x12 cab and I would consider a pair of 12ma wedges to be more portable; yet just as loud and more versatile. A pair of 8ma wedges does not strike me as a significant savings in overall footprint compared to a pair of 12ma wedges.
 
zslane make me think about it... you can use one 8ma and one 12ma. Large stage, use both. Smaller stage, use only 8ma or 12ma. ;)
 
I'm trying to figure out if the FBTs are just not perfect for tweaking or if they completely suck. I need two monitors for tweaking and playing at home, if the Verve's are not ok I have to consider the idea of getting a pair of studio FRFR and maybe in-ear-monitor for live...What can you suggest me guys?
 
killo said:
I'm trying to figure out if the FBTs are just not perfect for tweaking or if they completely suck. I need two monitors for tweaking and playing at home, if the Verve's are not ok I have to consider the idea of getting a pair of studio FRFR and maybe in-ear-monitor for live...What can you suggest me guys?
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I have a personal issue with any one using ANY stage monitor to create or tweak their tone. Wrong tool for the job. Note I mean ANY stage monitor.

You tweak to create what is REALLY there; not colored in any way by your output solution. You need to create and tweak on a reasonably flat studio monitor setup in a reasonably treated room. Then you KNOW what you have tweaked with NO colored sonic prism.

Your on stage monitoring cannot be your final output, there is not a one (beyond custom +$3000 solutions) that anyone could consider 'FRFR' for real.

Remember with running direct, the old guitarist paradigm is no longer in play. Everything in the box? You need a true sonic picture. Not a stage monitor by any stretch.
 
Scott,Any studio monitor recommendations?What are you using in your studio?When you are setting your tone do you do so at or near stage volume in your studio?
Thanks,in advance.
Gus
 
B.Bunyip said:
Scott,Any studio monitor recommendations?What are you using in your studio?When you are setting your tone do you do so at or near stage volume in your studio?
Thanks,in advance.
Gus
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I use a moderately priced system. DAW out to a JBL MSC-1 (I don't use any filters with it, you can but I do not) split into a JBL LSR2300 Sub and old school first version Mackie 624 speakers. Nothing flashy or expensive. The other key is that my room is professionally treated; I used to do mastering here at my home studio, so it's pretty cool and cost me some $$$ but it allows my monitoring system to not be as affected by the room as others might be.

Yes I do crank up to about 100db - 110db when dialing/tweaking. That's not full stage volume, but it's loud enough to hear what's going on at volume. I do check through my stage monitors, but just so I have a point of reference from what to expect from them.

It is akin to doing color correction on your computer. You cannot adjust color on a monitor with a filter in front of it. You cannot adjust color with colored lights in the room. With your tones, how can anyone here expect to really dial up anything with some accuracy using very *UN*flat stage monitors. For all the FRFR solutions out there, there are very very very few under $3500, hell under $6000 each that are truly flat response.

Folks are always correcting for them with global EQ and so forth; but the FOH mix in any given room will be changing room to room and even as the room fills up, the humidity changes, etc.. You cannot reasonably hope to control that from stage. That's not your job, that's the FOH engineer's job. If you create and tweak on a reasonably flat system in a reasonably uncolored room, you KNOW what you have. You are feeding the FOH good tone based on your tastes. What you get from any given stage monitor should NOT be the acid test.

All strongly IMHO. But I am very adamant about this for a reason.
 
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Scott Peterson said:
Folks are always correcting for them with global EQ and so forth; but the FOH mix in any given room will be changing room to room and even as the room fills up, the humidity changes, etc.. You cannot reasonably hope to control that from stage. That's not your job, that's the FOH engineer's job. If you create and tweak on a reasonably flat system in a reasonably uncolored room, you KNOW what you have. You are feeding the FOH good tone based on your tastes. What you get from any given stage monitor should NOT be the acid test.

All strongly IMHO. But I am very adamant about this for a reason.
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I disagree... IMHO!
As you pointed out, your reference tone will change from place to place. Moreover, your tone translated into stage monitor will change. Given this 2 issues, using the same monitor will cancel last one. The sound guy will have the same problem as before, so no downside.
 
Smilzo said:
I disagree... IMHO!
As you pointed out, your reference tone will change from place to place. Moreover, your tone translated into stage monitor will change. Given this 2 issues, using the same monitor will cancel last one. The sound guy will have the same problem as before, so no downside.
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We agree to disagree. Your uncolored tone you are actually sending is, and IMHO, needs to be 'uncolored' for your stage monitor. A stage monitor isn't really FRFR and by 'correcting' for it, you are essentially 'correcting' and therefore coloring what you send to FOH. Two wrongs don't make a right. When you then go to record direct, you again need to tweak/uncolor/re-correct. I do not. My tone is my tone and it works. What comes out of the stage monitor is for me to hear in context with the band, not recreate the studio experience. :D I just see/hear/approach it differently. IMHO.

But it doesn't matter really; and we don't need to agree. If it works for you, then it works! And as long as we are all having fun playing guitar... there's nothing wrong with any of it. To each, their own.
 
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I think Scott's approach is the smartest, and should be any FRFR proponent's goal. Unfortunately for me (and probably for many), I am not in a position to create a testing/listening environment like Scott's, so I will alway be dealing with a compromised set of personal presets.
 
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