Some balanced/unbalanced questions

RJSAudio.

RJSAudio.

Inspired
Heyo,

So I'm planning on getting this little guy:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002E583S/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&m=A1Y2BUUVZ49AZ4

to allow me to plug in my Axe-FX II, TV, and computer audio (3 separate stereo channels) into one little mixer and have that go out stereo into my studio monitors. I'm looking forward to being able to quickly and easily control all the volumes through one device, and especially to be able to plug headphones into one port and hear audio from all the sources. My only question is about balanced inputs on the Powermix III.

I totally understand balanced cables vs unbalanced cables and I get balanced outputs, but what I'm not sure about is balanced inputs. Are inputs also balanced or unbalanced, or is it just the outputs and the cables that make the difference? The specs for this mixer say that the outputs are balanced, but it doesn't say anything about the inputs. It would make sense that there is no such thing as a balanced vs. unbalanced input, because the signal at the end of the balanced cable and the signal at the end of an unbalanced cable are essentially the same thing after the one wire's phase is inversed, right?

And then finally, I've read several posts on here about the difference between the sound of the unbalanced vs. balanced outputs on the FX-II - the most accurate answer I believe I've gotten was that the sound quality is the same, but the balanced will obviously be much less susceptible to noise interference, and is +6 db higher, correct?

Lookin' forward to getting this straightened out, and making my desk workflow that much easier!

Thanks!
- Ryan
 
Since we are talking about a connection between an output and an input, balanced vs. unbalanced applies equally to both. The mixer you chose has only unbalanced inputs and outputs.

You are correct that the sound quality is the same. Balanced signals are +6 dB because you invert the negative signal and add it to the positive signal at the input, which cancels out common mode noise.
 
LMO said:
The mixer you chose has only unbalanced inputs and outputs.
Click to expand...

Really?!? How can you tell that the inputs/outputs are all unbalanced? So there would be no difference in using all balanced cables vs unbalanced cables with this mixer? Argh...I thought this was finally the thing I wanted to get but I really wanna switch to as many balanced cables as possible as I've had some noise problems in the past.
 
Last edited:
Inputs, just like outputs, can be either balanced or unbalanced. Balanced uses 3 conductor connectors, usually XLR or 1/4" TRS, for each mono signal. It isn't just the cables that make the difference. The differential noise rejection magic occurs in the devices not the cables.

You may be confused by the incorrect description on the Amazon page. The input and output connectors on the ART PowerMIX III are unbalanced 1/4" tip-sleeve.
http://www.artproaudio.com/downloads/specsheet/powermixiii.pdf
 
I'm generally not a Behringer fan, but I got the Xenyx 802 years ago when it was still called the MX602A, and it has worked fine for light duty. It is cheaper than the Art unit and has balanced connections.
 
Ah crap. Don't know how I missed that...

So would you have any recommendations for something that would work for me? A 3 stereo channel mixer with all balanced inputs and outputs? Or should I just give up on the balanced idea?

Thanks so much for your help!
 
LMO said:
I'm generally not a Behringer fan, but I got the Xenyx 802 years ago when it was still called the MX602A, and it has worked fine for light duty. It is cheaper than the Art unit and has balanced connections.
Click to expand...

Ya that's what I was originally planning on getting, but if you look at the specs for the 802:

http://www.aulaactual.com/info/behringer/mezcladores/xenyx802/802.pdf

It says that everything is actually unbalanced except for the mono mic inputs, which are "electronically balanced" - is that the same as balanced?

Also, a question on the Xenyx series, particularly the 502. It has 5 inputs, but it also has those L/R RCA inputs for CD/Tape on the front - is that a separate input that can be sent out with the main outs? Wouldn't that make it 7 inputs? If so, the 502 might work for me, as I could plug the FX-II into one stereo 1/4" input, the computer audio into the other stereo 1/4" input, and then the TV audio (which I'm not too concerned about preserving the quality of) into that stereo RCA input on the front. This is, of course, ditching the balanced idea, according to those specs I quoted.
 
How about this guy?

Applied Research & Technology: Audio Utilities

I could plug the TV and computer audio in via stereo RCA, and then use 2 of the balanced XLR line level inputs for the Axe, and then it has balanced 1/4" outs. Only annoying thing would be that I have to change the L/R volume of the Axe individually, but that's not too big of an issue. And I'd love something rack-mountable, as then I could just pop it right in my desk. Anything I'm missing there?
 
XLRs, like TRS, are balanced connections. Don't confuse mono/stereo with unbalanced/balanced. If you use TRS for stereo you are back to unbalanced.

Spend the big bucks and get the 802. For $10 you get a lot more flexibility.
 
LMO said:
XLRs, like TRS, are balanced connections. Don't confuse mono/stereo with unbalanced/balanced. If you use TRS for stereo you are back to unbalanced.

Spend the big bucks and get the 802. For $10 you get a lot more flexibility.
Click to expand...

I'm not. The specs for the 802 specifically say that the inputs and outputs are unbalanced. So I don't see why any of the Behringer's are any better than the other options I've listed, unless I'm missing something.
 
barhrecords said:
I use this for listening to multiple sources.

http://www.amazon.com/Mackie-Big-Kn...cal-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1323803885&sr=1-1

I bought one used off of ebay.

It has tons of options for RCA inputs, balanced 1/4", unbalanced 1/4", +4du, -10dbv level inputs etc.

Richard
Click to expand...

It looks like this would definitely do the trick, but that seems like its a little excessive for my situation! Haha. I really just need 6 in, 2 out, balanced, with no extra features at all. I think that rack mount mixer I posted might be the best bet.
 
I went down the same road trying to integrate a desktop PC audio, laptop audio, DAW audio and the AxeII.

What I found was the computer audio required some leveling etc. etc.

I changed from a small Art mixer that didn't cut it to the big knob from Mackie. All the level problems went away. No hum no buzzes. Just pure clean sound.

Richard
 
barhrecords said:
I went down the same road trying to integrate a desktop PC audio, laptop audio, DAW audio and the AxeII.

What I found was the computer audio required some leveling etc. etc.

I changed from a small Art mixer that didn't cut it to the big knob from Mackie. All the level problems went away. No hum no buzzes. Just pure clean sound.

Richard
Click to expand...

Ah, what do you mean by leveling problems? Which Art mixer were you using? I'm really liking the idea of it being rack mountable, so it could just be built right into my desk, but ya, if the sound isn't there then nothing matters.

Also, why did you have desktop computer audio, laptop audio, AND DAW audio? Wouldn't the DAW audio be a part of the laptop or desktop audio?
 
ryanstewartguitar said:
I totally understand balanced cables vs unbalanced cables and I get balanced outputs, but what I'm not sure about is balanced inputs.
Click to expand...

I think you don't understand balanced cables vs unbalanced cables as well as you think then, as the input is the most important part!
Both the output and cable have no value at all unless you're going into a balanced input!
A balanced output and balanced cable going into an unbalanced input is effectively a completely unbalanced connection.

For your purposes though a balanced connection might not be important at all, you may never be able to hear a difference.

ryanstewartguitar said:
And then finally, I've read several posts on here about the difference between the sound of the unbalanced vs. balanced outputs on the FX-II - the most accurate answer I believe I've gotten was that the sound quality is the same, but the balanced will obviously be much less susceptible to noise interference, and is +6 db higher, correct?
Click to expand...

Yes, a balanced connection is less susceptible to interference.
It depends on the specific implementation of the output if there is a level difference or not when used for balanced or unbalanced connections. There may or may not be any difference.
With an "electronically balanced" output there will be a difference of 6dB.
With a transformer balanced, servo balanced or "impedance balanced" output there will not be any difference in level regardless if they're used on a balanced or unbalanced connections.

S.R.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom