[SOLVED] - Tone Matching Confusion - Trying to Capture an Amp W/Load Box

[Jawoom]

Hey everyone,

Before selling off my Blackstar Series One head I have finally gotten around to trying to tone match it by renting a load box (Ox box) from a music store. I've been reading manuals, the forum, wiki, and watching good old Leon Todd videos, but unfortunately I'm still confused so I could use some assistance. My understanding is that I can capture just an amp with using a load box so my goal is to create a TM of the Blackstar and then use it with other IRs within the Axe Fx?

I have turned off the mic simulation in the Ox Box off so it is simply a load box as I'm using LT IRs within the Axe Fx to get the sounds I like with the Blackstar.

I have attached a photo below as to what setup I'm using.

• My guitar is going into Input 1 with an unbalanced lead
• Output 3 is going to the input of my Blackstar with another unbalanced lead. The speaker out from my Blackstar goes into the Ox Box.
• The line out from the Ox Box goes into input 2 with a line level lead.
• In the TM block, I have set the reference source to Input 2 and the mode is Live. Both the Reference Channel and Local Channel are set to left.
• Before I became a Fractal user, Fractal support recommend I use one of the JVM models (and it is pretty close to spot on with some tweaking) so that's what I'm using in the amp block.

I have created a TM which I exported as an IR. I believe I did the TM process correctly, but now the problem is I don't know what to do with them. When I go and load the exact same Fractal Amp settings with the TM IR in a Cab block it sounds like the direct signal coming from the Ox Box (Blackstar, but no cab block). Am I supposed to somehow load the newly created IR into the TM block and use it there or do I run 2 cab blocks with the first one having the Blackstar TM and then the second Cab block having the LT IR (the 2nd option doesn't sound right at all lol). I've seen other presets with just TM blocks and TM + Cab blocks.

Thanks to anyone who offers to help!

 

[GlennO]

The idea is you replace the TM block with a cab block that contains the IR. In your case you’d still need a cab block in addition to that.

But before you go too far, tone matching is for cabinets, not amps. An amp can’t be captured in an IR like a cabinet.

 

[Jawoom]

The idea is you replace the TM block with a cab block that contains the IR. In your case you’d still need a cab block in addition to that.

But before you go too far, tone matching is for cabinets, not amps. An amp can’t be captured in an IR like a cabinet.

Ahhh so I was wrong in my baseline premise. Oops Thank you very much for clarifying. In that case since I know what LT IRs I plan on using, I might as well just cycle between A/Bing the Blackstar/Ox Box signal against the JVM amp block signals and tweaking from there.

 

[Moke]

If you did everything correctly, like matching the gain levels and getting the basic EQ fairly close first, that 'tone matched' IR is a corrective EQ that makes up the EQ difference between the amp model and your Blackstar head. 'Live' Tone Matching is insanely accurate!

You will need to add it in an 'IR Player' block (or Cab block?) placed directly after the Amp block. At that point, it should sound very much like the Blackstar head through the load box (with no cab).

You could also add the 'Tone Match' block that you used to do the matching to your block library while it still has the match data in it, name it 'Blackstar TM'. And then recall it into any preset whenever you wish. Place it just after the Amp block instead of the 'IR Player'.

Then you will still need to add a Cab block after that with whatever IR(s) that you wish to use.

 

[Jawoom]

If you did everything correctly, like matching the gain levels and getting the basic EQ fairly close first, that 'tone matched' IR is a corrective EQ that makes up the EQ difference between the amp model and your Blackstar head. 'Live' Tone Matching is insanely accurate!

You will need to add it in an 'IR Player' block (or Cab block?) placed directly after the Amp block. At that point, it should sound very much like the Blackstar head through the load box (with no cab).

You could also add the 'Tone Match' block that you used to do the matching to your block library while it still has the match data in it, name it 'Blackstar TM'. And then recall it into any preset whenever you wish. Place it just after the Amp block instead of the 'IR Player'.

Then you will still need to add a Cab block after that with whatever IR(s) that you wish to use.

The IR player block... I definitely missed that one Okay I think the gears are turning in my head now. I know what I'll be trying tomorrow morning hehe. Thank you!

 

[Jawoom]

The IR block did the trick! Ahhh this is so cool. I like using it both in a FRFR setup and when I remove the cab block and go into my Matrix + 2x12s cabs. I still like the Fractal models better, but this is cool to be able to keep a piece of my Blackstar with me before it parts ways and goes to someone who will use it more than I do. Thanks all for your help

 

[jaycal6]

The idea is you replace the TM block with a cab block that contains the IR. In your case you’d still need a cab block in addition to that.

But before you go too far, tone matching is for cabinets, not amps. An amp can’t be captured in an IR like a cabinet.

Wait, why can’t you tone match a real amp without a cab? I’m curious because I’m planning on trying this with an amp soon. It’s just corrective EQ, so why wouldn’t it work on just an amp through a load box (minus the cab)?

 

[GlennO]

Wait, why can’t you tone match a real amp without a cab? I’m curious because I’m planning on trying this with an amp soon. It’s just corrective EQ, so why wouldn’t it work on just an amp through a load box (minus the cab)?

You can use the capture feature of the TM block on an amp, but that won't capture the sound of the amp. A tone match can only capture static linear behavior, like a cabinet. An amp is decidedly non-linear (with the exception of the tone stack, but I don't think anybody would consider capturing the tone stack to be capturing the amp).

That's the difference between tone matching and Kemper profiling. A tone match is just a corrective eq, and can only capture linear time invariant things like a cabinet. A Kemper profile is a tone match plus a capture of the non-linear behavior of an amp.

 

[jaycal6]

You can use the capture feature of the TM block on an amp, but that won't capture the sound of the amp. A tone match can only capture static linear behavior, like a cabinet. An amp is decidedly non-linear (with the exception of the tone stack, but I don't think anybody would consider capturing the tone stack to be capturing the amp).

That's the difference between tone matching and Kemper profiling. A tone match is just a corrective eq, and can only capture linear time invariant things like a cabinet. A Kemper profile is a tone match plus a capture of the non-linear behavior of an amp.

Gotcha, yep, I see what you're saying.