Solid state Combo amp - power amp in? Boss Katana vs Line 6 Catalyst

Kelleys Heroes said:
I'm not aware of a flat setting on the Katana, it sounds just as colored as a tube amp, on purpose of course
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Greg Ferguson said:
Correct. That’s what I understand, it’s based on a Celestion sound, which is not a flat response. Turn off cab modeling, and expect that everything sounds like amplifier X through a Celestion speaker.
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This is true. If you want the sound of amp x through cabinet y mic’d with z microphone and coming out of mains or monitors, then FRFR is the way.

If you want to get closer to what a real amp would sound and feel like in the room you pretty much have to pick a speaker and cab you like and go with it. Turn off the cab modelling of course.

I have played the fm3 through frfr, the pe60, katana, marshall jvm combo, and a randall rm50 combo. For me the amp in the room sound was the way, and the solid state combos won out. I was surprised that the tube amps didn’t blow me away, but they tended to sound “hyped” if you leave the power amp modelling on, and a little bit sterile without it. Fractal says as much in the manuals, but I’ve been a tube amp snob for so long I was reluctant to believe it. I get it now.

I now create all presets with a path that goes out to my amplifier and a separate path with a cab block for running direct to house. I have worked with different sound guys, some of whom actually prefer to have some stage volume and mic the amps, some who like both or don’t care, and some who really want direct only. I try to accommodate.
 
mThomasDutch said:
This is true. If you want the sound of amp x through cabinet y mic’d with z microphone and coming out of mains or monitors, then FRFR is the way.

If you want to get closer to what a real amp would sound and feel like in the room you pretty much have to pick a speaker and cab you like and go with it. Turn off the cab modelling of course.

I have played the fm3 through frfr, the pe60, katana, marshall jvm combo, and a randall rm50 combo. For me the amp in the room sound was the way, and the solid state combos won out. I was surprised that the tube amps didn’t blow me away, but they tended to sound “hyped” if you leave the power amp modelling on, and a little bit sterile without it. Fractal says as much in the manuals, but I’ve been a tube amp snob for so long I was reluctant to believe it. I get it now.

I now create all presets with a path that goes out to my amplifier and a separate path with a cab block for running direct to house. I have worked with different sound guys, some of whom actually prefer to have some stage volume and mic the amps, some who like both or don’t care, and some who really want direct only. I try to accommodate.
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If you get a chance, try using the power amp on an EVH 50w model. For a long time I've felt that it sounds significantly better than through any other amp's fx loop that I've tried (and I've tried quite a few). Then I read that it doesn't have a tube-buffered loop. Maybe that's it, idk. The down side is those combos are really heavy. I typically use a 50w stealth head for this but I also have a 2x12 Combo and that is a back breaker (86lbs!).
 
Deadpool_25 said:
If you get a chance, try using the power amp on an EVH 50w model. For a long time I've felt that it sounds significantly better than through any other amp's fx loop that I've tried (and I've tried quite a few). Then I read that it doesn't have a tube-buffered loop. Maybe that's it, idk. The down side is those combos are really heavy. I typically use a 50w stealth head for this but I also have a 2x12 Combo and that is a back breaker (86lbs!).
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I can get great sounds using the effects return of all the tube amp’s I’ve tried, but i end up tweaking a bit more after turning off the power amp modelling. It makes perfect sense. You have a model that is emulating the preamp and poweramp characteristics of a tube amp, then you run that through a tube amp. It’s going to re-emphasize the poweramp characteristics, which in a tube power amp is going to be a natural scooping of the mids due to the varying impedance of the speaker and its interaction with the amp. Then there’s compressions and distortions etc. A few years ago when modelling tech wasn’t quite there yet it was worthwhile to run through a tube amp with all the tweaking and weight and all that goes with it. Fractal has this so dialed in now it just doesn’t sound any better.
 
Ek12 said:
I run my FM9 through the power amp in section of my Katana 50 sometimes and it does not sound good compared to running directly to my PA system. The Katana is definitely coloring the sound heavily. I haven’t tried to tweak my presets to sound better through the Katana as I love the way they sound through headphones out on FM9 and my PA system.

It’s not just my presets. The factory presets also sound muddy through the Katana. I have been using the GOT Phil Collen preset quite a bit and it also doesn’t sound good through the Katana (when compared to direct to PA system). That said I can dial in excellent sound on the Katana itself and these FAS devices are so customizable that I’m sure you could tweak it to get it to sound good. Perhaps disabling the cab block or EQing the preset.

It’s fine for me to use the FM9 through the Katana for practice or to play a few songs for family, but it does sound much different than going through a PA system or even straight out to headphones. I do use the headphone jack on the Katana sometimes and it colors the tone as well.

I doesn’t bother me enough to tweak anything. I just know if I want it to sound really good I’ll run it through my PA. My PA is a Behringer iNuke3000 DSP. I love that PA. Anything I run through it sounds good.

Try it and see if you like it. Using the Katana power amp is fine for me when I need to use it, but my FM9 sounds much better direct through a PA or straight out of the headphone outs. If that’s all you have I’m sure you can tweak it to sound great. I just don’t bother as I like the way it sounds through my PA.
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I use both FOH and the Katana. Granted as all have said the Katana 'isnt' an FRFR but if you like the Amps/IR combo on the FM3/9 you can brighten up the patch easily , and imo it sounds great on stage for much less (Money and weight) than an FRFR.
 
stratavarious said:
I use both FOH and the Katana. Granted as all have said the Katana 'isnt' an FRFR but if you like the Amps/IR combo on the FM3/9 you can brighten up the patch easily , and imo it sounds great on stage for much less (Money and weight) than an FRFR.
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Yeah I’ve gone back and forth about turning the power amp modeling off. But since I also want to run to FOH I have left it on and run an eq block last after the split to output 3 which runs to my mesas. Sounds great to me but different from what I’m getting from FOH
 
I've got both right now (Katana 50 and Catalyst 60). Mostly because I wanted a no fuss plug and play amp for practice and was curious to try both.

IMO out of the box, the Catalyst is a better choice because the internal speaker is a lot less harsh than the Katana. I have a Celestion V-Type that I swapped into each amp to see the improvement. For the Catalyst, it was a very subtle change (maybe a little smoother), but for the Katana it was a night and day improvement. Significantly less harsh in the highs and just a better sound that's a lot closer to what you want in a guitar amp. There's an Andertons video where they swap the Katana speaker out for a bunch of Celestions and you can hear almost every time that the Celestion is smoother.

If you factor in the speaker swap, the big difference is then the cabinet. The Catalyst is a bigger cabinet and has a fuller low end, especially if you get a little further from the speaker and let it bloom, but it can be kind of mushy in the high end. The Katana is a smaller cabinet and can be kind of boxy sounding, but it's a lot more punchy and present.
 
There are three ways of using a Katana with a Fractal rig

1. Power amp in
2. Aux In
3. guitar input with Acoustic Model

I tried all of these (its a convenient, powerful lightweight rig), and for the money it does the job decently.

It presumably has some 70/80 knockoff type speaker as it is designed for its bunch of amp models and its ok.. not bad, but it will not compare to a quality FRFR or SS amp + Full range speaker...but that is also a different price bracket.

For me the best choice in connections is to use the Acoustic amp model and just plug straight in.. the three band eq becomes active and Master & Presence also. I leave cab and power amp modeling ON with the FM9 , make general EQ adjustments in OUTEQ on the rig and tweak bass/mid/treble/presence as needed on the fly.

I am not sure I would suggest someone buy one of these specifically for a Fractal rig, but they are low money light weigh options that pack a powerful punch in volume.
 
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I use 2 Katana Artist mk2 and it does color the sound. Don't disable your cab block. It sounds good but is colored. FRFR cabs says they are flat but most are not. If you want the very best sounds to use all the IRs, use high quality PA cabs, like JBL, QSC, or something of that quality. I am switching over to JBL PA cabs because they are the closest to my studio monitors. All the good sounds you hear on you hear on YouTube are direct using just IRs. Trust me, PA cabs are the very best way to use fractal.
 
Also, here's how I'm running mine right now:

OUTPUT 1 ----> studio monitors
OUTPUT 3 ----> power amp input for the Katana/Catalyst (both have this feature)

On the main signal chain row, I run the cab block LAST with stereo inputs and the same cab panned hard left and right to keep stereo outputs running into OUTPUT 1. Then I take a feed from the signal chain right before the cab block and run that to OUTPUT 3. In the settings, I have OUTPUT 3 summing to mono, so I can just take a standard cable feed.

So when using the amp/cab, I am not using the cab block, but have everything else enabled. And I can control which output I want to hear right from the front knobs.
 
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sprint said:
That's a significant compromise to make for an FR solution since a big part of what Axfx does wrt amp sound is in p.a. modelling + IRs, but you obviouly have it dialed in for your use case so 👍
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ah..nope i don't.. lol, a quick edit coming!
 
I was rereading this thread recently and felt inspired to try running into the Katana's front input and run through the acoustic model.

Wow! It might be the best tone I've gotten with a power Amp so far. The eq settings are pretty sensitive to small changes, but the frequency points work really well for taming back the stuff you don't want to hear. I have some rehearsals coming up in a couple of weeks and I'm definitely gonna try this rig.
 
I returned the Katana 50 I bought in exchange for a mint used Artist a few weeks ago. It's a much, much bigger and fuller sound with a lot less high end harshness.

I do find that running the Axe FX 3 into the power amp in still has some harshness in the highs, and a high cut at 8k helps things. Also having a low cut between 60-80 Hz can help with the excess lows as well.

I did tinker with the acoustic model in front as you can EQ it, but it did something with the mids I didn't like as much as running the power amp in.
 
Quick update for those not on another forum.

I've been finding the Axe FX 3 running into the power amp input for the Boss Katana Artist still has a lot of shrill/harsh high end which requires high cuts, generally around 6k or so. It's an improvement over studio monitors IMO but I don't love the sound.

I just picked up a used Blackstar HT-5 head for pretty cheap and found the effects loop return sounded a lot better than the Katana Artist, both running through the same speaker cab. I don't have to use high cuts with the Blackstar amp, although I do still turn down the presence and/or treble just a bit on high gain amps.

This is with cab modeling off and power amp modeling on.

I've got a Torpedo Captor load box/DI coming in today and plan to run some pink noise into both amps to see what's going on frequency wise, so I'll update later on with my findings.
 
Jarick said:
Quick update for those not on another forum.

I've been finding the Axe FX 3 running into the power amp input for the Boss Katana Artist still has a lot of shrill/harsh high end which requires high cuts, generally around 6k or so. It's an improvement over studio monitors IMO but I don't love the sound.

I just picked up a used Blackstar HT-5 head for pretty cheap and found the effects loop return sounded a lot better than the Katana Artist, both running through the same speaker cab. I don't have to use high cuts with the Blackstar amp, although I do still turn down the presence and/or treble just a bit on high gain amps.

This is with cab modeling off and power amp modeling on.

I've got a Torpedo Captor load box/DI coming in today and plan to run some pink noise into both amps to see what's going on frequency wise, so I'll update later on with my findings.
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Any updates?

I've got a friend moving, who pretty much gave me a Mk2 Artist as he didn't want to take another heavy anything on his truck. It's still in my garage, but I need to make some room and try it out. He used to use it as the modeler, and honestly, it always sounded pretty good. Seems like a quick plug and play anyway.
 
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