Wish Solid State Amp Block

RackAddict

Previous handle "Djenter"
This is a request dedicated solid state amp block containing models such as the preamps in amps like the Randall RH series, RG series, Marshall Valvestate, Randall X3 Warhead, or even the Sansamp PSA-1 rack, Peavey Transtube rack or any transtube preamp from back in the day.

But I want to start by saying that I have noticed in general that many of the same people who like to bash solid state amps are the same ones using overdrive pedals in front of their tube amps. Do they not realize that doing this is using a solid state op-amp circuit as their first gain stage? :laughing:

In addition, some of those same people for some reason have some myth stuck in their mind that seems to make them believe that solid state is some sort of digital fizz. I like to inform such people that a solid state circuit is an analog circuit.

Perhaps they got that perception from some cheap circuit they may have plugged into like an entry level Crate combo. But the quality of the solid state circuit's sound is determined by many factors. And there has been some very good ones and also not so good ones out there.

Also, when Fractal is providing alot of the overdrive pedal models of op-amp based solid state pedals that most players like to use in front of tube amp models... well since thats a solid state stage why not just make an amp model too! As there have been some very prominent solid state amp models used by virtuoso type lead players because they find solid state sound to be very quick in a very articulate way for very accurate speed playing which often times comes across as more focused than the same lead run played and run through a bunch of tubes (assuming they can actually play it cleanly which very few people can do. But among some players are Jason Becker who used a peavey rockmaster rack, Dimebag Darrel who used various randall solid state circuits, Paul Gilbert on the JCM900's preamp which is solid state, Chuck Schulinder, and James Murphy on the Marshall valvestate series. But even when it comes to lead time for the average bonehead, in comes the seeming need to kick in that overdrive pedal in front of the amp! And then at that point they are in some solid state land + their tube amp. Which is also a great mix.

Or even the hallmark death metal sound from back in the day for leads - the tube screamer 808 Keeley mod in front of the Marshall Valvestate 8100. Just an unbelievable epic sound. We have that in it's full glory from Chuck Schulinder's exact use of that spec. Try listening to Chuck's leads on the Death albums or even James Murphy's Convergence or Feeding the Machine solo virtuoso albums. Although why they call these things "Tube screamer" and "Valvestate"? i could not tell you. Complete misnomers if you ask me. You will also hear that exact configuration on all of James' solos on the Obituary Cause of death album too (while the grungy slothy Rhythm guitar grooves were recorded with tube amps driven by modified pro co rat pedals (also solid state). But regarding leads, ive never heard anything more surreal and lush than that Obituary album with Murphy (with processing of course).

That is certainly the one circuit that is certainly needed with that contour knob and the Gain 1 mode and Gain 2 mode in the same gain channel; which originally appeared in the Marshall Valvestate line and then there was a higher gain version that was released in a bunch of Randall amps, combos and heads in their RH line. (There is also the Dimebag RG ones which have been requested many times on these wishlists, but thats a different circuit. He used the Century series on Far Beyond Driven and the RG series on other albums.
And also the X2 Warhead head version was the my favourite sounding solid state one of them all as heard on the final Pantera record Reinventing the steel. Such a fine sound.

But for this request I am referring to the circuits which have that contour knob for this very interesting shaping of mids. A Chinese factory basically built that circuit for both Marshall and Randall, and a few other lesser known brands that rebranded that same circuit like the SGH Skorpion and i think one of the Fame heads.

And then Marshall had pulled a very funny move and had a very cheap version of the circuit which went into their MG line, but the better circuit kept getting made with the same contour knob for Randall in the RH line and also a few companies who rebranded a similar circuit also with the Same array, Gain 1 and gain 2 on the same OD channel, contour, EQ etc.

That was simply an awesome sounding circuit, especially for leads. It sounded like higher gain versions of the exact same Valvestate series.

It appears some version of this circuit also appears in the Behringer VT100FX with the added effects. I have never tried that one so I can't say for certain if they cheaped out like the MG did on the same circuit.

Pictured are some examples. i have had them all except for the Behringer. Its the two OD modes on the overdrive channel (gain 1 and 2), and the clean channel. (Just reversed left right on the Randall and SGH. (amazing cleans too btw).

Absolutely Key for the AFX3 amp block.
 

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For the record, the VALVEstate isn't a solid state amp. The preamp is tube, the power section is solid state. Most people would agree the best "solid state" amps that have been made were the ones with that configuration. Preamp tubes and solid state power section. (Randall V2 and T2 were the best attempts at that)

I'm a metal guy so don't hate on me lol but the thing is. The metal community of people like us, into old school metal, 90's death metal, etc, we are literally the smallest music group on the planet. The most obscure, people see us at the grocery store and think what the heck.

Idk if you've taken a listen to modern metal any time recently, but those types of tones from the 90's. Are dead. We had the early 2000's 5150 mesa 4x12 V30 TS9 every single record era, now we are in the lets make everything sound like Meshuggah era.

In the 90's people experimented a whole lot more, Obituary as you know, putting rats in front of marshalls? Who the heck does that anymore?

Anyway. My advice. Stop looking at names and pictures of amps. Use your ears and that's it. I did a little cover for IG and my friends of Obituary and Six Feet Under on the same day a couple weeks ago. I just pulled up the Recto 1 red model, boosted it with the OD808, turned my tone knob down and thats it man. My friend said wow that tone is sick, not oh man you playing the axe recto 1 model and not the exact JCM800 used by Obituary and the exact super strat into the exact T75 loaded cab, etc. Just putting the amp model name in the axe wont actually change anything, only in your head. You can even model the exact amp they used on the recording of cause of death, and thats still not enough because again... Do you have the exact super strat, with the exact fingers, in the exact room with the exact SM57 mic placement etc. No, you don't.

What irks me so much about these threads is not the asking for amp models, it's this feeling like the person making the post thinks having a certain amp model is going to like miraculously change everything like it's a magic key unlocking something. They're just amps man. It's not magic. The actual biggest difference sonically between tones in the 90's with death metal that you are hearing is less to do with the amps and more to do with a whole bunch of other factors. The speakers in the cab are the absolute hugest thing overlooked, in the 90's it was not like today where 99% of people used V30's, lots of people would literally just bring amps to shows without personal cabs, and just use whatever the backline had.

The recording process was different. The tones people were going for just in concept, were different.

There is so much more to the sound on lets say Deaths Symbolic record, than the inclusion of a Marshall Valvestate amp. You really think about it and tell me, would that record have sounded worse if Chuck decided lets use one of these new ENGL Savage 120's from Germany? The big difference instantly felt between solid state and tube amps is the dynamics. Most likely the record would mostly just sound less flat.

You can turn off the power amp emulation with every amp model and see how you like it btw. That will give you like idk 30-50 high gain amps that would now be designed in a similar fashion to a Valvestate or Randall V/T series. Uberchall, take the power tube emulation off, you now have a Valvestate like amp, with instead of a 300 dollar preamp design a 2000 dollar preamp design.
 
Scott Burns productions as you seem to be mentioning btw, are VERY produced records. There was a load of stuff going on after the mic hit the cabs on those records. EQ, compression, etc.

The contour knob on the Valvestate is nothing special. At 90% of the settings on the knob it's going to sound like crap, just saying. It's not some magical knob making the Symbolic record sound so good.

Check out the ENGL E530 preamp. Has the same contour knob, and funnily enough is the amp used by Obscura the biggest Death fanboy band. What do you think would sound better, Chuck using their ENGL rack rig or a Marshall Valvestate? Personally I actually believe Chuck would've used the E530 if he were around for it.

Maybe we can get a model of the E530. Schematics are available AFAIK. How different is it from the Savage, I have no clue. That was the rig I almost got before I decided to go with the Axe FX 2 instead.
 
Scott Burns productions as you seem to be mentioning btw, are VERY produced records. There was a load of stuff going on after the mic hit the cabs on those records. EQ, compression, etc.

The contour knob on the Valvestate is nothing special. At 90% of the settings on the knob it's going to sound like crap, just saying. It's not some magical knob making the Symbolic record sound so good.

Check out the ENGL E530 preamp. Has the same contour knob, and funnily enough is the amp used by Obscura the biggest Death fanboy band. What do you think would sound better, Chuck using their ENGL rack rig or a Marshall Valvestate? Personally I actually believe Chuck would've used the E530 if he were around for it.

Maybe we can get a model of the E530. Schematics are available AFAIK. How different is it from the Savage, I have no clue. That was the rig I almost got before I decided to go with the Axe FX 2 instead.

Tube amps in general to me feel a but spongy. on the gain. With some exceptions. But will see what those ones feel like. I assume thats the Angle Severe in the fractal.

But ive just discovered some really good sound and response with the JMP-1 model in the fractal. It just takes alot of tweaking to get that thing in its sweet spot. But that thing hits exactly the way you want when you strum, or chug and does whatever you want and when you want. And it punches neck pickup sounds unlike anyting else with soloing. That thing is king for leads.
 
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For the record, the VALVEstate isn't a solid state amp. The preamp is tube, the power section is solid state. Most people would agree the best "solid state" amps that have been made were the ones with that configuration. Preamp tubes and solid state power section. (Randall V2 and T2 were the best attempts at that)
You have it backwards for the JMP-1. Its a preamp with a few solid state clipping diodes with one tube at the master volume stage to add a bit of grit. Schematic is almost identical to a valvestate. That thing responds like solid state when you play it.

in other words, problem was already solved and didnt even know it was solved. But randalls would sitll be nice. The RG and RH ones.
 
In addition, would love a JCM900 model. Another extremely underrated amp and an amp mistaken for tube preamp and its really not other than the poweramp stage.

Such an underrated amp. Paul Gilbert's favorite and same with Trey Azagthoth and his instantly crunchy signature lava. Also used by Slayer on the the Christ Illusion Album (contrary to fake wiki info as i knew a guy who knew insider stuff of what those guys used for every album and this guy as a human encycolpedia of everything tone related and when iw anted to get a sound when i was buying real amps the guy got me the exact sounds i was after right away. You want to match the fiery lava-like tone off that record, use the Zakk Wylde EV Black label speakers in your cab and the 900 amps and experiment with some dirt in front of them). Whey different capture there by them than any of their other albums. Extremely tight but crunchy thick lava similar to the 90's and early 2000'ss Morbid Angel stuff but with the Zakk speakers. Its my only real amp left and its a gem. 4100 Version.

These types of amps have this visceral feel to them that are so instant. But the JMP-1 is a whey cleaner type of high gain distortion than the JCM900. These are both such important Iconic Solid state amps to have modeled and sadly only one of them is.
 
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I don’t know why anyone would want Morbid Angels tone. It is so odd and ridiculous. It works for him but I can’t imagine any person other than Trey plugging into that 90’s rig and not sounding awful.

Did you try turning off poweramp tube emulation? That should decrease sponginess of any model by like half.
 
A JCM900 model though. I have no complains with of course. No reason not to model one that I can think of. (Well 90% of guitar players hated them but other than that)
 
Had a look in my old notes. Seems the 900 was in the Axe-Fx Ultra...
  • the successor to the 800 series was the 900 series. This amp had basically the same power amp but a new preamp with more tone shaping, more gain, and a solid-state clipping circuit that gave it a raspier sound. This amp was designed to get more of its distortion from the preamp than the earlier models but you can still keep the drive low and turn up the Master for more power amp distortion
  • Stock cab suggestion: 4x12 V30, 4x12 75w, 4x12 T75. Alternative: RW Marshall IRs
  • Original controls: Gain, Bass, Middle, Treble, Presence, Volume
  • The bright cap on the original (Lead channel) is tied to the pre-amp gain (Drive). If the amp is too bright on low Drive setings, just switch off Bright
  • Experiment with medium to high Master Volume
  • Try adding a TS808 or Tube Drive in front of the amp with zero Gain and full Level
- Cliff, 2008: "The Brit 900 or Brit Pre will get you very close to a JCM2000. Essentially the same preamp voicing."
---
Maybe this is why Cliff considers it the same as the JMP-1...?

Cliff: "The JMP-1 is very similar to the preamp in the JCM900. In fact all the distortion in the JMP-1 is solid-state. There's a tube in there but the levels are too low to ever get it into clipping."

Seems he also gave it another tonestack back then, and people found it sounded better than their actual unit (which may not be what you want?).

Cliff, 2012: "I actually used a Marshall tone stack for the model. The JMP-1 is a bit of an odd duck. It has a switchable, fixed tone stack equivalent to the knobs at noon followed by active tone controls. My advice is to simply play around with the tone stack. Try the "Vintage" tone stack as that will simulate switching out the fixed tone stack."
 
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Had a look in my old notes. Seems the 900 was in the Axe-Fx Ultra...

  • the successor to the 800 series was the 900 series. This amp had basically the same power amp but a new preamp with more tone shaping, more gain, and a solid-state clipping circuit that gave it a raspier sound. This amp was designed to get more of its distortion from the preamp than the earlier models but you can still keep the drive low and turn up the Master for more power amp distortion
  • Stock cab suggestion: 4x12 V30, 4x12 75w, 4x12 T75. Alternative: RW Marshall IRs
  • Original controls: Gain, Bass, Middle, Treble, Presence, Volume
  • The bright cap on the original (Lead channel) is tied to the pre-amp gain (Drive). If the amp is too bright on low Drive setings, just switch off Bright
  • Experiment with medium to high Master Volume
  • Try adding a TS808 or Tube Drive in front of the amp with zero Gain and full Level
- Cliff, 2008: "The Brit 900 or Brit Pre will get you very close to a JCM2000. Essentially the same preamp voicing."
-
Maybe this is why Cliff considers it the same as the JMP-1...?

Cliff: "The JMP-1 is very similar to the preamp in the JCM900. In fact all the distortion in the JMP-1 is solid-state. There's a tube in there but the levels are too low to ever get it into clipping."

Seems he also gave it another tonestack back then, and people found it sounded better than their actual unit (which may not be what you want?).

Cliff, 2012: "I actually used a Marshall tone stack for the model. The JMP-1 is a bit of an odd duck. It has a switchable, fixed tone stack equivalent to the knobs at noon followed by active tone controls. My advice is to simply play around with the tone stack. Try the "Vintage" tone stack as that will simulate switching out the fixed tone stack."

Thanks for clarifying. Looked for this thread and just caught this now.
Funny enough, ive been the JMP-1 model in the fractal to get closer to them Morbid Angel and other sounds that can be gotten so easily with a 900 in real life.
But I still thing the 900 is a more brittle sound (in a good way).
You have to use a rat distortion in front of it for the signature Trey Lava and you need to eq before the Rat. Exactly the way Trey does. It's very neat. And need to have a cab that has softer sounding speakers such as greenbacks or similar sounding speakers so that it's not too raspy sounding. (Unless you want to sound more prickly like their Heretic album).

As for getting Trey's other various lead and clean-ish sounds or solos with multi FX is a whole other matter.
 
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The sure thing is that the tone of old death thrash record don’t get better with the time. I know all the classics by heart, was listening to this a lot back in the day. But now when I listen back to these records outch. That’s crazy how everything was scooped. Most of the time you have zero mids. But I think you can easily mimic these tone with the axe just adding a 5 band eq with whatever head and turning down the 3rd slider ☺️
 
The sure thing is that the tone of old death thrash record don’t get better with the time. I know all the classics by heart, was listening to this a lot back in the day. But now when I listen back to these records outch. That’s crazy how everything was scooped. Most of the time you have zero mids. But I think you can easily mimic these tone with the axe just adding a 5 band eq with whatever head and turning down the 3rd slider ☺️


Mids? What are those? Never heard of em'.
 
Yes, this is very lacking, there must be:

Randall RG100, Warhead, Warhead X2
Randall V2, T2
Marshall Valve State 8100
Marshall Mode Four
Ampeg VH140c
Amped VL-501
Crate GX130c
Holmes Mississippi Bluesmaster (Shawn Lane's Amp) - super clear sound

It is not necessary to make a separate block for this, these models simply have to be for the reason that they will give the general list of amplifiers even more variety. I've been waiting for this moment for 13 years now.
I'd love to mix some Randall Warhead into a tube amp to add some harshness to the sound. I tried to imitate using the AMP block settings, I didn’t manage to do it right - this is not it!

Recently fiddling with randall Warhead profiles in Tonex sounds great but can't be adjusted.

You can also get a very characteristic Lead sound on transistor amplifiers, which cannot be fully recreated on a tube amplifier, Dimebag Darrell demonstrates this sound on one of the videos.


By the way, in 2023 they should start releasing Randall Warhead again.


Super solid state Lead on 16:15 minutes
 

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