So many tube amp questions why not one more?

C

Chrose1201

Inspired
There are so many variations on this question but I am looking for what I "hope" is a simple answer!
I have a Friedman Dirty Shirley 40W head which I run through a 212 cab. An amp as we know (I am just getting it straight in my head here) has a preamp for coloring the sound and then the power amp which does the heavy lifting. Since the FM3 is essentially the preamp in a sense, all I need then is the power amp section.

What I think I am seeing is that the I can use the power amp section of my Friedman and somehow bypass the preamp OR get a power amp like a Crown something or other and an FRFR cabinet which would essentially then be the new version of my head and 212 cab. Right?

And how would this jibe onstage with my co-lead who is using a "regular" amp?

The band I am in does have a full rig sound system with tech if that makes a difference.

More questions to follow :)

Thanks!
 
Sorry in my head that was clearer :) I can use my Friedman DS40 head and just bypass the preamp somehow right so I don't need to get rid of the amp? Or is the better solution to get a straight power amp and an FRFR cabinet?
 
Chrose1201 said:
Sorry in my head that was clearer :) I can use my Friedman DS40 head and just bypass the preamp somehow right so I don't need to get rid of the amp? Or is the better solution to get a straight power amp and an FRFR cabinet?
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the fm3 owner's manual details several setups. you would plug into the FX Loop return of the Friedman.

a power amp and guitar cab, or FRFR cab are other options which may or may not be better depending on your preferences.

this is just one of the many examples provided in the manual:

Screenshot 2022-12-05 at 1.39.21 PM.png
 
chris said:
the fm3 owner's manual details several setups. you would plug into the FX Loop return of the Friedman.

a power amp and guitar cab, or FRFR cab are other options which may or may not be better depending on your preferences.

this is just one of the many examples provided in the manual:

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Thanks for this. I downloaded the OM and went to print it, but if I did in color it was $90, all BW was still $24. I guess I'll but the FM3 so I can get a free OM :)
 
Chrose1201 said:
Thanks for this. I downloaded the OM and went to print it, but if I did in color it was $90, all BW was still $24. I guess I'll but the FM3 so I can get a free OM :)
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Don't print it! They'll update the manual maybe once a year to accomodate firmware updates, so your printed manual goes out of date.
 
They also don't always include a printed manual with the units. My Axe II came with one, but my Axe III did not.

With the PDF you get clickable table contents and the ability to search the document too.

Also, don't forget about the Footswitch Functions Guide and the Fractal Block Guide. LOTS of good info in those too.
 
mr_fender said:
They also don't always include a printed manual with the units. My Axe II came with one, but my Axe III did not.

With the PDF you get clickable table contents and the ability to search the document too.

Also, don't forget about the Footswitch Functions Guide and the Fractal Block Guide. LOTS of good info in those too.
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I think they stopped shipping printed manuals a long time ago.
 
unix-guy said:
I think they stopped shipping printed manuals a long time ago.
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Of course they did! Everybody has! But thanks to Chris for posting this page. Last night it struck me. May be Amp 101, but for me I never really knew exactly what the FX loop did, and now I know (Finally) so now I see how to use my tube amp to power the FM3. I now also can see the benefit of the FRFR cab. I use a Carvin V212 cab with Eminence speakers. They do definitely have a color to them, but I am suspecting the quality of the FM3 tones will over ride the cab flavor and so no real need to change that. Also the Friedman DS40 power amp is way more power than I'll ever need so it seems that my current rig, minus my current pedalboard and effects, plus the FM3 is all I need.
 
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You can use your existing tube amp and plug the FM3 into the Effects return and that will bypass your tube amp's pre-amp section. Make sure to turn off Power Amp modeling and don't use Cab modeling either. This is what I usually do and I think it sounds the best and the most like having a real "Amp In The Room" sound.

You can turn on Power Amp modeling and plug the FM3 into a Solid State amp into your guitar cab and this sounds the same as above. I've tried this and couldn't tell the difference.

You can turn on Power Amp and Cab modeling and run the FM3 into an FRFR speaker/amp. This sounds really nice but some people complain that it doesn't give you the "Amp In The Room" sound and feel. It sounds more like a mic'd up amp coming back through the monitors at you.

Hopefully this answers your questions.
 
Joel.Brown333 said:
You can use your existing tube amp and plug the FM3 into the Effects return and that will bypass your tube amp's pre-amp section. Make sure to turn off Power Amp modeling and don't use Cab modeling either. This is what I usually do and I think it sounds the best and the most like having a real "Amp In The Room" sound.

You can turn on Power Amp modeling and plug the FM3 into a Solid State amp into your guitar cab and this sounds the same as above. I've tried this and couldn't tell the difference.

You can turn on Power Amp and Cab modeling and run the FM3 into an FRFR speaker/amp. This sounds really nice but some people complain that it doesn't give you the "Amp In The Room" sound and feel. It sounds more like a mic'd up amp coming back through the monitors at you.

Hopefully this answers your questions.
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I saw this in a Cooper Carter video last night. But then again and I just recalled something I thought of. There are some tones I would like to achieve that involve lets say a Fender Twin clean tone. I also saw an amazing BE100 tone in a preset. But, I can't do this if I bypass the power amp and cab modeling right? Now I'm getting confused again :D
 
It depends on how perfect you want your tones. Obviously a Fender Twin tone can't be achieved perfectly if you're using a Friedman tube power amp and cab. But it can probably get close enough or maybe even sound better to you. No confusion required. Buy the FM3 and use what you already have first. You can decide later if you need some other type of amp/cab system. Some people don't even use an amp/cab. They just plug in direct to the FOH and use monitors or in-ears.
 
Chrose1201 said:
I saw this in a Cooper Carter video last night. But then again and I just recalled something I thought of. There are some tones I would like to achieve that involve lets say a Fender Twin clean tone. I also saw an amazing BE100 tone in a preset. But, I can't do this if I bypass the power amp and cab modeling right? Now I'm getting confused again :D
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When all else fails, use your ears...i.e., if it sounds good it's right.
 
The unit will sound fine with another guitarist playing a “real” amp as long as the volume and EQ are set correctly. One of the best benefits of playing the FM3 as an all in one solution rather than running it into an amp is to get the benefit of the modeled power amps that correspond to each amp model. You can virtually push them and get the desired level of power amp compression and distortion that you may not be able to get with a full on tube amp at reasonable volumes. If you prefer the sound running into your amp, then go for it. As was previously stated, if it sounds good, it is good. That said, you should learn how to use the unit both ways so that you can give them a proper comparison. I prefer to run mine through an FRFR with modeling and IRs on.
 
You can run your FM3 into the front of your Friedman OR into the FX Return of the Friedman. If you go into the front, you'll be using the preamp of the amp and the power of the amp. Most turn off the FM3's amp modelling so that it does not color the sound of the tube amp. You also can turn off the cab modelling and rely on the 2 x 12 you have. In that case, the FM3 will provide effects only. However, you can try using FM3 amp and/or cab modelling ("ON") and see how that sounds. If you go into the FX Return of the amp then your Friedman will be a power amp only and you'll keep the FM3 amp modelling ON and you can decide whether to keep its cab modelling on or off. Personally, I run the FM3 into the front of my Quilter Tone Block 202 and into a 2 x 12 stack of high wattage NEO speakers. The Quilter is set to FRFR mode with FM3 amp and cab modelling both ON. Sounds good to me. In short, just experiment and see what you like or don't like.
 
Dave Friedman said "with 4 cable you can have the preamp of the DS or a Axe fx preamp.. Will do everything really then.."
 
Chrose1201 said:
Dave Friedman said "with 4 cable you can have the preamp of the DS or a Axe fx preamp.. Will do everything really then.."
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Sort of... As long as "everything" includes always having the DS power amp character/distortion/color regardless of what amp model you use, that's correct.

Nothing wrong with that but just be aware that an important part of the overall character of many amps comes from the power section...
 
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