So...I received today Kemper....

fourtet

fourtet

Member
...and packed it up for return an hour later. I'm 40, and started journey in digital realm in mid 90's with Yamaha FX70 (if my memory serves me well). I went through Digi GSP2101, Line 6 PODs (over 100 shows with it), all Fractal models, 11 rack (still use it, still like it), Helix (returned within 2 days) - and all of them operated without once cracking a manual. I also know how to squeeze the best out of digital effects. Nothing to be proud of, I just know how to use my technical intuition. Well, Kemper - even though amps sound really good - stroke me by its counter intuitive unit operation. I had hard time going through presets to find an explanation of cloned model. In addition, this must've been just me, but registration process already rubbed me wrong way (can't explain how, don't ask). Effects are on par with Line 6 POD in its edit mode. IMO, this is great unit to record dry and then add effects in DAW (which I'm sure most of us do anyway). This is not a rant but my very personal experience I just had with the unit costing over $2,300, with pedal included. Am I 100% happy with my AX8? Well, I'm 90% there as I do understand modelers go after a sound of an amp captured with a mic. Not an amp, but rather its reflection in DAW (or analog media). Even inexpensive amp will give you better feel than a modeler. Yet, I use my modelers 99% of the time as I record a lot at night and my Fender DRRI gets tiring for my family after 20 minutes (whereas they tolerate noise coming from modelers played through monitors for much longer.... hmmm, go figure...probably less piercing).

Lastly - well, I'm surprising myself with thoughts I'm having lately - I DO have a problem with ethics behind creating amp clones with Kemper. All other makers decided to analyze and dissect an essence of how sound gets created through different principals of amplifications and recreate those best to their beliefs, whereas Kemper learnt how to listen and copy - and I knowing how risky my position on this stands - I DO have a problem with it. Hence my decision to continue with Fractal. I don't believe blonds are better than brunettes, Hondas outperforming Toyotas, or Fenders sounding more universal than Gibsons. Everything has its own place in our life and sometimes (especially election time) we all get carried away with sticking by the only truth we're comfortable to accept and live by. Having said that, this is the best time to be a guitar player and I'm going to enjoy every minute of it, keeping in mind music comes first, and music comes from comforting place in our heart.... hence my post :)

Have a wonderful day!!!!!
 
Last edited:
The effects are what steered me towards the AFX. I seem to see most people using the Kemper as an amp and running their own pedal board into it - when I first started looking, the solution I picked HAD to do everything and the Kemper fell short in that regard.

I really did like the amp tones I was hearing in the Kemper - the store I tried it at had profiled some of their own amps and they sounded fantastic. I was hooked on the Vox profile they had. Had it not been for the effects, I may have walked out with one there and then.

I do agree that I found the UI not so intuitive, especially moving between all the various modes and things like that. I also didn't like how the effects placement is quite rigid, although you can load in what you want without worrying about CPU limits e.g. you could load all four stomp slots with drives for example. At the time there was also no controller and I didn't want to mess around with MIDI - the AFX had the MFC and now we have the AX8.

The profiling process does intrigue me though as all the nuances and interactions that influence a circuit are baked into the profile, whereas with modelling you are relying on all of that being captured in the algorithms.

I think the effects have come a long way since when I demoed it, especially in the latest FW where the delays seem to have received a big revamp.
 
Interesting. You're saying you have a problem with the ethics behind the Kemper concept of profiling an existing amp instead of doing your homework, understand the hardware and then try to emulate it. Correct ? I guess the same profiling principle applies to cab IRs and FIR reverbs. Do you have a problem with those too ?
 
Man, if you have an ethical problem with the Kemper's static snapshot of an amp tone, then you should have a serious ethical problem with a unit that completely duplicates the operation of the entire range of tone from an amp channel, like the AX8 does. :)

I'm only teasing about the ethical dilemma, but I completely agree with you on the cost/benefit side. At $1299 for the AX8, how does the Kemper even make sense anymore?
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
Man, if you have an ethical problem with the Kemper's static snapshot of an amp tone, then you should have a serious ethical problem with a unit that completely duplicates the operation of the entire range of tone from an amp channel, like the AX8 does. :)

I'm only teasing about the ethical dilemma, but I completely agree with you on the cost/benefit side. At $1299 for the AX8, how does the Kemper even make sense anymore?
Click to expand...

I realized that Fractal gives you ability to compile "all new amp" with ingredients they recreated therefore technically there's no any IP infringement :). And for sure I got spoiled big time with possibilities to further enhance effects, especially reverb and delay so any 4-5 parameter approach to those causes major limitations. Last point - AX can be used for effects only in conjunction with an amp which is to me deal breaker.
 
bshaw92 said:
This makes sense comparing cost against the Axe-FX, not the Kemper.
Click to expand...

Not sure how it doesn't apply to the Kemper. The Kemper has fewer and lower quality effects. It doesn't have a built in foot controller. All the amp sounds are not already baked into the Kemper. For a far lower price you get, IMO, more with the AX8 than with the Kemper. Compared! :D

Of course, you can totally compare the price to the Axe-Fx.
 
Man, you're pretty good. It took me about 3 months before I was comfortable with my Kemper and my AX8. I was considering sending them both back after a week, didn't even dawn on me after an hour, I knew that would be ridiculous. LOL!!:)
 
pat6969 said:
Man, you're pretty good. It took me about 3 months before I was comfortable with my Kemper and my AX8. I was considering sending them both back after a week, didn't even dawn on me after an hour, I knew that would be ridiculous. LOL!!:)
Click to expand...

I know!!! :). After driving for over 20 years you have some preconceived expectations to suit your style :) accepting that there's so many options to get you from point A to point B comfortably. No right or wrong over here my friend:)
 
fourtet said:
I know!!! :). After driving for over 20 years you have some preconceived expectations to suit your style :) accepting that there's so many options to get you from point A to point B comfortably. No right or wrong over here my friend:)
Click to expand...

You are correct, no right or wrong for sure. Just not sure 1 hour is adequate time to review a product and post that review, and be taken seriously. I bought a CLR Neo and knew within a day I hated it, I avoided posting a review about it because I knew it was obviously a good product because lots of guys were using it, plus I knew when I said I tried it for 1 day I would get flamed. Anyway, it's an open forum so it's your right to post what you want. Glad you have a unit that suits your needs. Rock on!! :D
 
A copy of something is still copy of something . . I see very little difference if I hand draw that copy or use a Xerox machine. An amp "model" is the same as an amp "profile" from where I sit.

I currently own a Kemper w/foot controller. It sounds very good and yes, the effects are its weak point. A static 4 pre/4 post chain is frustrating at times. I also use the FX loop. I was on the original Wait List for the AX8 but the opportunity to try the Kemper came up ( it was a used one). Plus some household expenses popped up and took buying the AX8 off the table. I have yet to own any Fractal products but have been giving them a hard look for a while now. I also was intimidated by the depth of detail in the Fractal stuff and thought I could never learn to use it all. I thought the KPA would be easier to use. The UI is a bit clunky at first.

I will say that I admire both Christophe and Cliff for what they have made available for us as players. This is decadence, my friends. It is the All You Can Eat Buffet of guitar gear in a single To-Go box.

I just saw Dweezil Zappa a few weeks ago using his 2 Ax Fx set up and . . holy shit! was his tone great! I sat behind the sound desk and was very impressed by what I heard. His band member who played guitar/sax had an AX8 but we could barely hear him.

I have been considering getting an AX8 simply because of the more flexible effects chain and I would like a smaller footprint instead of the KPA head and foot controller I have now, plus the outboard effects I run into it. I have also looked at the L6 Helix but have owned many L6 products in the past and feel snake-bit by the company. I am not some gigging guitar player who thinks his "tone" will cure cancer or save the world. I am a home player who jams with buddies from time to time, so I have to justify what it is I'm paying for and why I'm buying it ( other than vanity). I did put the KPA on Craig's List and only had one response ( the guy wanted to trade a Randall Satan for it, I said "No"). I have even considered the Yamaha THR 100 HD as a stripped down alternative and then get a FX8. To be honest I really only have "First World Problems" for the most part. This "dilemma" is one of them.

As far as the OP's ethical bind . . by all means, sell your car and ride a bike, eat only organic veggies and grass fed free range meat, wear non-sweatshop labor clothing and play a Fractal as opposed to a Kemper if that makes you feel any better and helps you to sleep at night. And I DO appreciate your post as it makes me have to reflect on my own conduct.

In this Western -Capitalist culture we are all corrupted and are either actively or passively complicit in the exploitation of others and the planet ( Made in China . . .anyone? . . .anyone?). There is no way to be pure and clean now, we are up to our necks in it.

Peace :cool:
 
Never tried a Kemper, I just couldn't get over the way the thing looked. Granted they have a rack mount now which looks a lot better but I'm quite content with FAS products!
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
Not sure how it doesn't apply to the Kemper. The Kemper has fewer and lower quality effects. It doesn't have a built in foot controller. All the amp sounds are not already baked into the Kemper. For a far lower price you get, IMO, more with the AX8 than with the Kemper. Compared!
Click to expand...

Because the price is not night and day apart. I bought my Kemper for $1600.00. If the way an amp sounds is most important to you and the ability to profile whatever amp you want or have then it's worth it. If effects are it for you then you may be less satisfied paying a little more. However, the delays within the Kemper are now equivalent to Fractal. If it were a thousand dollars different then I would be with you. It isn't with the Kemper. It is with the Axe-Fx.

Sixstring said:
I just couldn't get over the way the thing looked.
Click to expand...
This is what actually drew me to it when it first came out.....and the opportunities. I like the being different thing, but I can understand it might not be for everyone.
 
I need to add to my initial post why Kemper rubbed me wrong way:

1. No PC/Mac editor for Kemper. Coming from Fractal/Line6/Eleven Rack ecosystem this is huge oversight IMO on KPA part.
2. Unit froze on me 10 minutes into playing
3. Need USB drive for upgrades and some imports?

This is why I didn't need more than an hour for decision to place it back in its box.
 
Last edited:
bshaw92 said:
However, the delays within the Kemper are now equivalent to Fractal. If it were a thousand dollars different then I would be with you. It isn't with the Kemper. It is with the Axe-Fx.
Click to expand...

Delays got overhaul. How about reverb, which to me still leaves a lot to be desired. I understand we all have preferences as far as ecosystem goes, therefore I'm glad I was able to reassure myself about tools that I am to work with.

HOWEVER - amps in KPA do sound freaking good. No argument here.
 
fourtet said:
I'm glad I was able to reassure myself about tools that I am to work with.
Click to expand...

No one can dispute the fact that what you like is what you like. And there is nothing worse than spending weeks and months playing with something to make yourself like it if you don't.

As to your other reasons listed above. Item 3 is not fully correct. The upgrades are now direct though Rig Manager and don't even require a download. The effects and cabs (if separate) currently would require loading via USB. If it's within a profile then same as above. The interface for adjustments hits people on both sides. It might be huge for some. All your amps and pedals are adjusted in front of you by your fingers not using a computer. I'm not debating with you about it just saying that once you start adjusting without the computer its not all bad. I did most editing of the Helix without a computer as well and have spent a lot of time making adjustments in front of the AX8 with no computer so I am familiar with the interface and feel comfortable making adjustments. This way live I don't feel pressured if I need to make adjustments.

Having everything in one package like the AX8 is a big plus no doubt. They both have there negatives and positives. Having made your decision you now have the benefit of just playing guitar and not comparing for months on end of which time you will never get back. Enjoy.
 
I had kemper for a while and returned it. I felt like all profiles sounded the same (gain character mainly). Also i did not care for much of the models that were out there. Basically if you are not profiling your own set up you rely on whatever other guys think is a good tone.
 
Many pros use a Kemper for touring. Once they profiled their studio equipment all you need to go on tour is your profile on a flash drive. Everything else can be rented and the sound is always the same.
 
I've been playing all morning with Kemper and Rig Manager (I'm shipping back on Monday). There's so many useless profiles there. I smirked seeing line 6 POD profiles there as well as those of Eleven Rack. The only possibility for me to keep it would be if I were touring musician, with rare and expensive amps, which then I would profile and keep on my USB. Other than that there's too many seaweeds among public profiles out there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom