SMS Classic Twin Pre-Amp

>Have you tried the Raezer's Edge cabs with the Axe-FX?<

I've considered it, but so far, haven't.

For various reasons, I've made it a mission to get my sounds entirely "In-AxeFx". I want sounds that are "portable"... so they'll work equally well thru my own personal backline monitor, for FOH for larger gigs, for recordings, etc. To that end, I've considered shooting an IR of my RE cab, and using that as part of a patch. Haven't found the time yet...
 
A year ago or so, I saw the guy from VHT explain how he restores tube amp feel by going into his Valvulator first before going into any modeler.

If he's right, my guess would be you are losing a big part of the advantage of a tube preamp by putting it in the loop.
You hopefully get most of the sound, but miss out on some of the feel.
When you use it, I would try to go into the preamp first and add another MIDI rack switching system when I wanna get my signal kinda straight to the Axe ;)
 
LVC said:
He has NEVER been off my radar. :lol Very big fan of his. In my old band we used to do a lot of GD tunes -- with my current one we don't. However -- I think his clean tone and his use of a clean tone with a Mutron is about as good as it gets. When I first got the Axe -- my goal was to nail down a great Twin clean tone and a Mutron. Mutron preset Yek came up with kills and I use it all the time, however I wish cliff would model an actual Mutron (or the Proton by 3Leaf). On my pedalboard (for tube amps) I use the Proton by 3Leaf. Absolutely the best Mutron clone on the market today (IMO) Proton YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBArR3EARIM
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I absolutely don't love everything the GD did and find that they could be horrible at times. However, when they were good, they could be hugely great. There's a version of Spoonful (I think from 81 in Richmond) that is one of the greatest tones ever from Jerry. I assume it's just drive pedal into his clean high headroom rig. It's super touch responsive and expressive, and he plays some of the best blues I've ever heard from him. Sometimes he could be rambling and verbose, but this is the opposite. His solo is maybe 4 choruses of absolutely focused epic blues and has stuck in my mind for years since someone gave me a compilation with this tune on it. A Twin pre with those super clean MacIntosh amps could make for one of the best pedal platforms around.

I'm not going down the rabbit hole of pres with the Axe, but I'll be curious how the hole looks if you do it.
 
Interesting ---

I've seen guys (in the tube world) use different preamps with their tube amp by inserting them in the amps effects loop and bypassing the amp's preamp when they wanted to.

Why couldn't I do the same thing with the Axe-FX?

Heck you can even do this with the RP1000 unless I am misunderstanding its capabilities.

RP1000 | DigiTech Guitar Effects

vAmp said:
A year ago or so, I saw the guy from VHT explain how he restores tube amp feel by going into his Valvulator first before going into any modeler.

If he's right, my guess would be you are losing a big part of the advantage of a tube preamp by putting it in the loop.
You hopefully get most of the sound, but miss out on some of the feel.
When you use it, I would try to go into the preamp first and add another MIDI rack switching system when I wanna get my signal kinda straight to the Axe ;)
Click to expand...
 
You can certainly put the SMS in front of the AxeFx and plug directly into the SMS. Would be cool to try.

Or guitar -> SMS -> AxeFx II Input 2 (return of the FX Loop block).

The FX Loop in the middle was, as I said, to provide the ability to use the AxeFx drives in front of the SMS.
 
You can, but I can easily see how it could be different.

Let's say the Axe input somehow "screws up" your tone in some way for some die hards...
Then I'd rather go into the tube preamp first and let a great signal be screwed up a bit than have a screwed up signal go into the loop/preamp.
I wouldn't be surprised if this gives you both better feel and sound.

In the Ultra days we had Stef Herbuel who insisted on using a clean tube preamp signal (JMP-1, I believe) into the back input of the Axe only. He didn't like the special sauce of the front input. Of course, there was A LOT of discussion about it ;)
 
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vAmp said:
You can, but I can easily see how it could be different.

Let's say the Axe input somehow "screws up" your tone in some way for some die hards...
Then I'd rather go into the tube preamp first and let a great signal be screwed up a bit than have a screwed up signal go into the loop/preamp.
I wouldn't be surprised if this gives you both better feel and sound.

In the Ultra days we had Stef Herbuel who insisted on using a clean tube preamp signal (JMP-1, I believe) into the back input of the Axe only. He didn't like the special sauce of the front input. Of course, there was A LOT of discussion about it ;)
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I'm not sure of your point?

I'm saying try it all different ways until you get what you want. I don't hear the front input doing anything weird in my setup.

I play pedals in front too sometimes and the AxeFx takes pedals great for my setup.
 
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Sorry, I was talking to LVC.

I'm not saying everyone hears it. And it's also a feel thing.

I only remember a real tube amp experience of myself very well that I'm guessing is still not done by the Axe (the limited dynamic maximum, as I call it).
I've also seen Alan Phillips of Carol-Ann amps say he can still easily *feel* when he's playing the Axe instead of the amp (was a year ago or more though).

I'm pretty sure it's still so and I'm among the first to believe that.
Which does not mean I'm complaining, but it's an extra reason to keep the analog interaction by going into the tube preamp first.
 
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Maybe this is what you were talking about

Fryette Valvulator GP/DI Tube Guitar Recording Amplifier by Fryette Amplification &mdash; Kickstarter


2fc6451194d21f0fc60327fd05f0ebd6_large.jpg


The GP/DI brings a lot to the table for modeling-amp users. Not only does the direct out provide you with a tube front end to feed your modeler with, which helps to make it feel more like a tube amp, but you get a fully-functional REAL tube amp to use in place of one of the models. You can, if you so choose, use either the GP/DI's Cab Section or the modeler's cab sims - or both. Using the GP/DI this way lets you use the GP/DI when you'd like, and the internal models when you like, just by switching presets.

Fractal Audio AXE-FX II
Plug your guitar into the GP/DI, then route the DIRECT Output to the front or back Input 1 of the Axe - they respond slightly differently, and it is entirely up to user preference. Then route the AMP/DIRECT Output to Input 2 on the back of the Axe. To use the GP/DI as an amp, replace the "Amp" and "Cab" blocks in a patch with an "FX Return" block, set your level, and that's that. If you prefer to use the Axe's cab model, simply route in a "Cab" block after the "FX Return" block and disable the GP/DI's internal sim. It is also possible to use both the internal cab sim AND the cabs in the Axe, but that routing gets pretty complicated - a full description will be provided in the GP/DI user manual, as well as in a video to be produced later.



Looks similar to what I would want to do with the SMS preamp.

vAmp said:
Sorry, I was talking to LVC.

I'm not saying everyone hears it. And it's also a feel thing.

I only remember a real tube amp experience of myself very well that I'm guessing is still not done by the Axe (the limited dynamic maximum, as I call it).
I've also seen Alan Phillips of Carol-Ann amps say he can still easily *feel* when he's playing the Axe instead of the amp (was a year ago or more though).

I'm pretty sure it's still so and I'm among the first to believe that.
Which does not mean I'm complaining, but it's an extra reason to keep the analog interaction by going into the tube preamp first.
Click to expand...
 
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I still have two old MesaBoogie Studio Preamps. For those who like to have a good clean (and dirty) tube tone with classic tube driven spring reverb, LCR graphic EQ and an awesome sounding recording out - these units go for 300-500$ on ebay and they're worth every penny.....

here is a direct to desk clip of the boogie studio preamp (guess I recorded this in 2005) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100561953/keetarblooz.mp3 :mrgreen


I revoiced the 2nd one into the dumble non-HRM area - awesome tone machine!


but there is nothing my AxeFx can't do......I mainly use them as backup units and just because they look very nice ;)
 
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PacoCasanovas said:
I still have two old MesaBoogie Studio Preamps. For those who like to have a good clean (and dirty) tube tone with classic tube driven spring reverb, LCR graphic EQ and an awesome sounding recording out - these units go for 300-500$ on ebay and they're worth every penny.....

here is a direct to desk clip of the boogie studio preamp (guess I recorded this in 2005) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100561953/keetarblooz.mp3 :mrgreen


I revoiced the 2nd one into the dumble non-HRM area - awesome tone machine!


but there is nothing my AxeFx can't do......I mainly use them as backup units and just because they look very nice ;)
Click to expand...

Very very nice!
 
LVC said:
Maybe this is what you were talking about
Fryette Valvulator GP/DI Tube Guitar Recording Amplifier by Fryette Amplification &mdash; Kickstarter
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No, but I heard of it and it can probably do the same and more.

When I heard it was before this one and in one or more of the vids Fryette did on his 1U LXII tube power amp.
fryette LXII - YouTube
The Valvulator is on top there in a few.

On a schematics site I read it is supposed to be badly made with regards to some aspects though.
There's also people who tried it and don't hear/feel enough of a difference, like... Scott Peterson, I believe.
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-...lifier-add-more-warmth-axe-fx.html#post440930

tonegeak said:
Although I use a Valvulator which takes the rollercoaster effect out of your signal and helps more than you would think.
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http://forum.fractalaudio.com/ultra-std-discussion/35601-other-rack-gear.html#post485015

Fryette may just be trying to sell his device of course.
But that still leaves me with my own one-time experience [valid or not, I'd have to redo] and the Allan Philips statement [that I can't find back atm].
 
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LVC, I've previously used external tube preamps such as a Soldano X99, JMP1 and others in the loop of the Axe.
It can easily be done, and the Axe does not IMO screw up the tone in any way.
IF you want to incorporate an external tube preamp, I say put it in the loop for all the reasons you've already thought about - but personally I think that the Axe II has come such a long way now that I wouldn't bother with the external tube preamp, unless you already own it and absolutely need a 5th amp in your preset (2 virtual amps with X/Y settings gives you 4 amps available in a preset already).
Just my .05$
 
Good points!

Rocket Brother said:
LVC, I've previously used external tube preamps such as a Soldano X99, JMP1 and others in the loop of the Axe.
It can easily be done, and the Axe does not IMO screw up the tone in any way.
IF you want to incorporate an external tube preamp, I say put it in the loop for all the reasons you've already thought about - but personally I think that the Axe II has come such a long way now that I wouldn't bother with the external tube preamp, unless you already own it and absolutely need a 5th amp in your preset (2 virtual amps with X/Y settings gives you 4 amps available in a preset already).
Just my .05$
Click to expand...
 
PacoCasanovas said:
I still have two old MesaBoogie Studio Preamps. For those who like to have a good clean (and dirty) tube tone with classic tube driven spring reverb, LCR graphic EQ and an awesome sounding recording out - these units go for 300-500$ on ebay and they're worth every penny..... here is a direct to desk clip of the boogie studio preamp (guess I recorded this in 2005) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100561953/keetarblooz.mp3 :mrgreen I revoiced the 2nd one into the dumble non-HRM area - awesome tone machine! but there is nothing my AxeFx can't do......I mainly use them as backup units and just because they look very nice ;)
Click to expand...

I have a Studio Preamp and think the clean tone of that pre is one of the best clean tones ever. Fat warm with loads of headroom. I've never used the drive much, but the clean is awesome. I agree that they're fantastic value right now.
 
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