Simulate KT88's in a Plexi

dr bonkers said:
I still want some sort of diffuser accessory for the Fractal so I can load it with essence of cooking tubes and transformers.

I sort of miss those scents, but not the repair bills that accompany them.
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I know what you mean. At a bar, I once picked up a heavily toured Laney VC30 that smelled vaguely of cigarette smoke. Once she had warmed up, though, gave off a strong scent of Mary Jane. I guess those essential oils must have protected the tubes: because they lasted a long time. Everyone gravitated to that amp though. One evening I came home and... gone. Stolen? Or maybe she missed the life on the road? I'll probably never know.
 
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Darrin66 said:
From my understanding, when you select KT88's, the corresponding OT match to KT88's is corrected as well, that's why you don't hear much of a change. I'm looking for the effect that putting KT88's in the Plexi with the OT specified for EL34's gave us. Same as always, If I'm wrong someone please explain.
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I think that's been requested before, to have some sort of ideal/authentic switch option in the tube section where authentic would just be exactly like what would happen without readjusting an amp after a tube swap. I'd really like that...
 
VegaBaby said:
I think that's been requested before, to have some sort of ideal/authentic switch option in the tube section where authentic would just be exactly like what would happen without readjusting an amp after a tube swap. I'd really like that...
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Heck, a lookup table in the Wiki for the virtual transformer primary loads and the tube expected plate load would even be a big help, now that we have Cliff's official word on how the knob adjusts the relationship between the idealized tube/transformer loading. Plate load lower than expected by the tube? Dial down from 1 to set up the real world mismatch. Higher than expected? Dial up from one....
 
leagueofkruger said:
Sure but then the "analog is better" crowd will say modellers just dont have that 'something special' you hear when playing thru an amp with speakers and components that are actually on fire, smoking, or covered in beer (or other spilled liquids). 🙂
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Of course!
... Then you run that glorious amp (with a mic or two in front of it) through a PA on a gig, or thru studio monitors to record, and if you do it right... there you have it...
.. a dialed in AxeFX.
 
leagueofkruger said:
Sure but then the "analog is better" crowd will say modellers just dont have that 'something special' you hear when playing thru an amp with speakers and components that are actually on fire, smoking, or covered in beer (or other spilled liquids). 🙂
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Having picked up a few tube amps during the pandemic, I believe they are referring to the percussiveness you feel when playing a tube amp.
 
VegaBaby said:
I think that's been requested before, to have some sort of ideal/authentic switch option in the tube section where authentic would just be exactly like what would happen without readjusting an amp after a tube swap. I'd really like that...
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I'm brand new here so I only know about it from searches that I've done to look for info, but I'd prefer that too. I haven't listened super critically but I don't remember hearing any difference when straight up changing output tube types without any further adjustments. And if there is a difference it's nowhere near what I heard in real life when I put KT88's in my friend's Metroamp plexi. Which is why I poked around for info and asked the question. Cliff said he didn't want to break any existing presets by removing the OT match/rebias compensation adjustment when OP tubes were swapped. After working in engineering departments for 25 years, I understand that line of thinking 100%. But if the fix for existing presets is putting the stock tubes back in and not hearing a change, then I say do it. I think whatever makes the AFX3 more like a real life amp should win every time in the decision making process.
 
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Darrin66 said:
I'm brand new here so I only know about it from searches that I've done to look for info, but I'd prefer that too. I haven't listened super critically but I don't remember hearing any difference when straight up changing output tube types without any further adjustments. And if there is a difference it's nowhere near what I heard in real life when I put KT88's in my friend's Metroamp plexi. Which is why I poked around for info and asked the question. Cliff said he didn't want to break any existing presets by removing the OT match/rebias compensation adjustment when OP tubes were swapped. After working in engineering departments for 25 years, I understand that line of thinking 100%. But if the fix for existing presets is putting the stock tubes back in and not hearing a change, then I say do it. I think whatever makes the AFX3 more like real life amp should win every time in the decision making process.
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I guess one answer would be to add an option to go either way, either globally or per preset or channel.
 
JWDubois said:
I hear a big change when I switch from the EL34 Mullard (default on almost every Marshall model) to almost anything else, especially the KTs. There was a time when changing power tube types didn't do much in the Axe III (to my ear), but at some point changing power tube type and preamp tube type became very noticeable.
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This is because you have a transformer rated for X and tubes rated for X, and if you swap to tubes rated for Y then you've created a mismatch that affects sound.

In the Axe stuff the mismatch is controlled by the Transformer Mismatch control, which stays at 1 (properly matched) even if you change the tube type. So in the Axe you're seeing what would happen if you changed tubes only but with a transformer that still probably matched. The beauty is you can compare tube types and transformer mismatches separately and see what the best combination is without having to repeatedly re-wire large blocks of iron.
 
IronSean said:
This is because you have a transformer rated for X and tubes rated for X, and if you swap to tubes rated for Y then you've created a mismatch that affects sound.

In the Axe stuff the mismatch is controlled by the Transformer Mismatch control, which stays at 1 (properly matched) even if you change the tube type. So in the Axe you're seeing what would happen if you changed tubes only but with a transformer that still probably matched. The beauty is you can compare tube types and transformer mismatches separately and see what the best combination is without having to repeatedly re-wire large blocks of iron.
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If I changed virtual tube types and the sound didn't change, it would be pointless. In previous FWs changing tube types didn't affect the sound much to my ear, and plenty of other people posted about it. Now I hear big effects changing both the preamp and power tube types. I'm not sure exactly when this changed. (Edit: I remember when I first noticed it was the FW where all the new power tube types showed up.)

The physical reasons for this in both the real world and in the FW are interesting but irrelevant to me. I'm not really interested in "accuracy". But I find changing the tube type to be a very powerful tweaking tool now.
 
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JWDubois said:
If I changed virtual tube types and the sound didn't change, it would be pointless. In previous FWs changing tube types didn't affect the sound much to my ear, and plenty of other people posted about it. Now I hear big effects changing both the preamp and power tube types. I'm not sure exactly when this changed. (Edit: I remember when I first noticed it was the FW where all the new power tube types showed up.)

The physical reasons for this in both the real world and in the FW are interesting but irrelevant to me. I'm not really interested in "accuracy". But I find changing the tube type to be a very powerful tweaking tool now.
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Could you post one of your presets where you change power tubes and you notice a big difference and tell me which tubes you changed between? I'd like to figure out if there's something I'm doing wrong, the few times I tried it I didn't hear any change at all. Maybe some of my other settings are not set correctly to hear the change.
 
Darrin66 said:
Could you post one of your presets where you change power tubes and you notice a big difference and tell me which tubes you changed between? I'd like to figure out if there's something I'm doing wrong, the few times I tried it I didn't hear any change at all. Maybe some of my other settings are not set correctly to hear the change.
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I'm live mostly in Marshall land. All the Marshall models are set to EL34 MULL by default. If I change the power tube from EL34 MULL to either of the other EL34 types I hear extra brightness in the top end. If I change it to something like a KT88 I hear even more bite. The change is very noticeable at the medium gain and MV settings I use.

Do you hear changes when you cycle through the preamp tubes? I hear big differences changing the preamp tubes as well. Changing a Marshall model from ECC83 / EL34 MULL to 12AX7 / EL34 SVET can really help light it up.

Also, I'm using Strats and Teles with medium output pickups, bright sounding IRs, a lot of low cut, and no high cut at all. I don't use the drive models or any compression. What I'm hearing may all be in the high end.
 
JWDubois said:
I'm live mostly in Marshall land. All the Marshall models are set to EL34 MULL by default. If I change the power tube from EL34 MULL to either of the other EL34 types I hear extra brightness in the top end. If I change it to something like a KT88 I hear even more bite. The change is very noticeable at the medium gain and MV settings I use.

Do you hear changes when you cycle through the preamp tubes? I hear big differences changing the preamp tubes as well. Changing a Marshall model from ECC83 / EL34 MULL to 12AX7 / EL34 SVET can really help light it up.

Also, I'm using Strats and Teles with medium output pickups, bright sounding IRs, a lot of low cut, and no high cut at all. I don't use the drive models or any compression. What I'm hearing may all be in the high end.
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I just bought the AF3 at the end of May and I still consider myself a newb, as I'm having trouble with the Marshall models. I was using VST's for the last 2 years and I got great results, so I figured I may as well go all in, which lead me to buy the AF3. I've been a Les Paul into Marshall guy for a few decades but I can't seem to get the tones I'm used to, with the AF3. I'm having great results with other amp models, just fantastic, so I'll say that I'm extremely happy with the unit.

I'm trying to figure out the Marshall thing but every now and then I whine again about it here and ask guys what they're doing to try to pick up some tips. That's why I keep asking for presets. Not to question people, but to poke around and see if I can figure it out as opposed to wondering if I'm doing the exact same as them or not. I'm sure somewhere along the way I'll have an Ah Ah! moment, and I do feel like it's getting better all the time, so I'm hopeful that sooner or later I'll be in Marshall heaven.

I've designed and built amps for the last 30 years so it's frustrating as I can usually dial in a real amp in minutes. I keep saying that I'm sure it's me, and case in point, last night I found a post by Burgs in another section of the forum where his Marshall tones are fantastic. I plan to download the preset he was so nice to share and really dig into it this weekend.

I'll also try your suggestions and try my Strat and Tele with less gain and see what I hear. Thanks for the response.
 
Darrin66 said:
I just bought the AF3 at the end of May and I still consider myself a newb, as I'm having trouble with the Marshall models. I was using VST's for the last 2 years and I got great results, so I figured I may as well go all in, which lead me to buy the AF3. I've been a Les Paul into Marshall guy for a few decades but I can't seem to get the tones I'm used to, with the AF3. I'm having great results with other amp models, just fantastic, so I'll say that I'm extremely happy with the unit.

I'm trying to figure out the Marshall thing but every now and then I whine again about it here and ask guys what they're doing to try to pick up some tips. That's why I keep asking for presets. Not to question people, but to poke around and see if I can figure it out as opposed to wondering if I'm doing the exact same as them or not. I'm sure somewhere along the way I'll have an Ah Ah! moment, and I do feel like it's getting better all the time, so I'm hopeful that sooner or later I'll be in Marshall heaven.

I've designed and built amps for the last 30 years so it's frustrating as I can usually dial in a real amp in minutes. I keep saying that I'm sure it's me, and case in point, last night I found a post by Burgs in another section of the forum where his Marshall tones are fantastic. I plan to download the preset he was so nice to share and really dig into it this weekend.

I'll also try your suggestions and try my Strat and Tele with less gain and see what I hear. Thanks for the response.
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The preset that I use 95% of the time is really simple. In, PEQ, Amp, Cab, PEQ, Delay, Reverb.

I use the parametric filters before and after the amp to do my low cuts, and occasionally to add some mid boost. I used to do a lot of advanced parameter tweaking in the Amp block, but with recent FWs I don't find it necessary. Gain, MV, and tone are about all I adjust now.

The real key for me is finding an IR that you don't have to compensate for with too much eq.

I was playing around some yesterday and found that while I could hear the differences in tube types, especially by quickly scrolling through them, the differences were less in-your-face than I was thinking.

As far as the Marshalls go, there are so many variants that for me the trick was to find one that was really close to what I was looking for, rather than spending time trying to beat the wrong one into submission. My go to Marshall model is #47 Brit Brown.
 
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