Should I consider buying a pre amp?

T

torkolort

Inspired
Why do some people use pre amps with the axe, and how are they used? I've done some breakthrough on my rhythm tones lately, mainly because of a combination of IRs and detailed EQing. But still there is something missing. And it seems that the amp sims doesn't really do it for me. Therefore I wonder if I should consider using a pre amp before the axe.

Thanks
 
Sounds more like you might want to consider using a tube power amp after the Axe. IMO you can dial in the juicy goodness of valves, but it's easier just to plug into some real ones :)
 
Yes, there is a preamp that can help you with the amp tones of the AxeFx Standard/Ultra. It is called the AxeFxII ! ;)
 
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Don't mean to ruffle any feathers, it's been a long week. but why do gen II users feel the need to post how great it is in the Gen1 forums rather than post something constructive?!? You have the II, we get it, now if you have nothing to add... move along, these are not the droids you are looking for.
 
any time!

Seriously, I can think of a few really nice preamps that might enhance the sound of the AxeFx amp models, at a cost of $1000 or so...point being that you sell the ultra and spend the extra odd $1000 on upgrading to the AxeFxII. Otherwise, I too would be interested in hearing from someone who uses an outboard preamp to the successful augmentation of the ultra. Taste being what it is, though, I wouldn't be shocked to read of a user who is putting an ART tube pre in line with their AxeFx, and is happier than a pig in sh*t.

btw, I'm still gigging with my ultra, and not the II. It's OK...you get a mulligan...so...

Never mind....as you were...
 
Mmm... I used to have that same problem with the AxeFx... I loved it but that "something" was missing.... I used the HT dual distortion pedal as a preamp and I had a 2902 as a power amp... if you already have a tube power amp I guess buying the HT pedal is not that expensive... I bought mine used cheaper on ebay, like 150 dls. So is a nice option... btw it was strange for me, but the HT dual was good with the VHT but with SS amps like Tech 21 was AMAZING.. it was a controlled feedback madness all the time... not noisy but rich, good... So I guess it works better with SS as a mere preamp... I never tried it with my current setup which includes a SS amp cheap Crown now that I have AxeII...

So for me it would be ... try with a 2nd hand nice valve preamp.... not good?.... sell both and invest in II.. AxeFx is not hard to love it with a nice valve poweramp sounds damn good without much tweaking in my o2.
 
torkolort said:
Why do some people use pre amps with the axe, and how are they used? I've done some breakthrough on my rhythm tones lately, mainly because of a combination of IRs and detailed EQing. But still there is something missing. And it seems that the amp sims doesn't really do it for me. Therefore I wonder if I should consider using a pre amp before the axe.

Thanks
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I think you should just keep at it.

It is a proces of developing your ears and your knowledge of the box and the tools in it. It does not come over night. The most important thing is to try and figure out the difference and then find a way to get it.
Take it as a challenge, a trip to school and a journey then it does not feel so bad. I approach playing guitar the same :)

Jens
 
jimfist said:
Yes, there is a preamp that can help you with the amp tones of the AxeFx Standard/Ultra. It is called the AxeFxII ! ;)
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HHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA well played sir! :D

rkbrock said:
Don't mean to ruffle any feathers, it's been a long week. but why do gen II users feel the need to post how great it is in the Gen1 forums rather than post something constructive?!? You have the II, we get it, now if you have nothing to add... move along, these are not the droids you are looking for.
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fair enough. that was my attitude before I got the II as well, and I'm telling you that it is DRASTICALLY better without a shadow of a doubt! ;) Jim is right - the II is the preamp you're looking for. Here's why - I used 3 preamps with the ultra, and I don't use ANY with the II. It's all in that black box. I run the ultra in the fx loop of the II sometimes, but that's about the only time I use any preamp with the II.

YMMV IMHO blah blah blah, but if you're looking to use a preamp with the std/ultra, go for it! ;) It will likely help, as it did with my ultra.
HOWEVER, if you can, I'd just sell the gen1 and get the II - there's no comparison! ;)
 
ah.. people say this and people say that.. its never the same advice when it comes to gear.. Have you read the axe-fx II forum? everybody is running around with their arms up in the air.. some don't like it, some think they do but cant tell, some want to like it but cant, some love it, some aren't thrilled by it now but hope they will love the upcoming firmware.

POint being, buying more gear puts you at risk of wasting valuable time, effort and mental stability. An uninformed buy can put you in any of the above categories. Buying more gear should be the last resort only after expending all your options with the current gear. Take jens' advice and try to persevere until you know. If you absolutely know why your current gear isn't achieving what you want, and you KNOW that the additional gear will do it, then thats the logical decision.

Have you ever heard a recording of tones that you are aspiring to from another gen 1 user without a preamp? if so, then you have the answer.. if not, then you should do some experimenting
 
Tork, what are you running through right now? I am running my ultra through 2 krk8 and love everything about the sound. So much that I'm looking at selling my amp and going to go the frfr route. If you are doing the same and are now starting to like your sound, adding a power amp will add yet another variable to tweak with and around.

Also, I'm glad no one took offense to my crappy attitude last night. But it does irk me as many of us don't want to buy and sell every time something new comes out. Many users JUST got their Gen1 unit. It's not like Gen1 is selling for peanuts either. Would I like to try Gen2!? Hell yeah... But I'm (and many others) not willing to spend another $1000-1500 for that privilege. If Gen1 was good enough for Steve Vai etc etc, it's good enough for me lol.

Take care all and best luck on the search for your tone!
 
Tork, what are you running through right now? I am running my ultra through 2 krk8 and love everything about the sound. So much that I'm looking at selling my amp and going to go the frfr route. If you are doing the same and are now starting to like your sound, adding a power amp will add yet another variable to tweak with and around.

Also, I'm glad no one took offense to my crappy attitude last night. But it does irk me as many of us don't want to buy and sell every time something new comes out. Many users JUST got their Gen1 unit. It's not like Gen1 is selling for peanuts either. Would I like to try Gen2!? Hell yeah... But I'm (and many others) not willing to spend another $1000-1500 for that privilege. If Gen1 was good enough for Steve Vai etc etc, it's good enough for me lol.

Take care all and best luck on the search for your tone!
 
I just picked up a used Ultra a little while ago and couldn't be more thrilled. I think it sounds great on it's own and I've just been using the presets like Limelight and Crazy Train to play along with songs. The best advice I've found on the forum is to dial in the sound you hear on the cd/record not the sound you'd dial in on an amp. I think that little adjustment in how you approach the Axe-Fx makes a big difference in the results you'll get regardless of which unit you're running.
 
Thanks for your input guys.

I obviously have thought a lot about the getting the II, and I probably would have already if I could. I'm basically just looking for an awesome Mark IV / V rhythm and lead tone, not so much the versatility. What I've been doing lately is to use Ozone tone matching, but instead of creating a custom IR I've just used stock cabs, and tried to apply as much as possible from the EQ curve that Ozone gives me using EQs and filters in the axe. This is getting me pretty close tone wise, but still there are some elements missing which I can't really point out. The only way I can describe is that there's something with the gain and dynamics of the amp block and the feel that isn't quite right for me.

I've seen a lot of people here say that it's so easy to get a good tone with just a very basic setup of amp - cab and basic amp settings. That's never worked for me. So I end up tweaking instead of playing. Maybe my ears are too fussy because often when I'm quite happy with a tone tone, then suddenly the next day I think it sounds horrible and I go back to tweaking again. I still might go for the II though, once I can. I just wonder if since it's more of a dynamics and feel thing, the solution for me might something else. I have very little experience with real amps, so I'm not sure it would help either way.

And by the way, I'm basically just playing at home, recording direct into my Saffire 6 audio interface and monitoring through KRK 6s.
 
JJunkie said:
Have you read the axe-fx II forum? everybody is running around with their arms up in the air.. some don't like it, some think they do but cant tell, some want to like it but cant, some love it, some aren't thrilled by it now but hope they will love the upcoming firmware.
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You can go back and read the same things said about the Ultra and Standard whenever a new firmware was dropped. I chuckle when I read the Axe ll threads, it just reminds me of all the things that were posted a few years back.

To the OP, run a pre amp if you think you need one. I don't quite know what it is that you think your missing and all the $50 words that we guitar players use to describe that sensation won't fix your problem. I can remember hearing some great recordings of both Gen-1 units and most were not using any outboard gear to enhance the sound. Are you an amp and cab or FR user?
 
not intending to lead you down a rabbit hole, but if you are trying to get the same tone/feel from studio albums etc, maybe think about some added compression? I think they always add more compression to gtr tracks during mixing
 
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