Should I buy a '65 Fender Strat ?!

[markwayne]

Back in the early 90's there an older gentleman who used to frequent our venue on industry nights. His wife had died and so he used his generous pension to collect guitars even though he didn't play. He asked if he could bring a guitar in once in a while for me to check out and maybe play a set on. Now, at the time, I was a total non-believer in vintage voodoo. I had some older instruments but none that really qualified as collectible.

We settled into a routine where, once a week, he would bring some lovely old beast and I would check it out and maybe do a quick setup and, then, if it proved to be playable play a set or two with it. It was fun, he enjoyed hearing his baby played and the band turned it into kind of a "hey, come hear a vintage guitar night" thing. Several old Strats, Les Pauls and some oddballs passed through my hands. However, I was generally all too happy to get his guitars back in his hands at the end of the night.

That was, up until the night he brought in a mid-fifties Strat that looked really rough and, in spite of everything I could. do, was just passable from a playability point. However, once I plugged it in, I ended up playing it the rest of the night. That was the only time I asked him about selling one of his guitars. He told me what he had paid and I gulped and then offered him that plus my rig and the two guitars I had at the club that night. He wasn't interested.

 

[Andy Eagle]

very interesting.....really don't have a clue what to look for

Tooling and age. thickness.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Top and bottom are a 59 the middle two are a 64.

Damn, I was going off the patent numbers on the headstock and thought they only had those during ‘62. I still haven’t fixed that logo on my Strat to remove that decal, I keep forgetting to buy naphtha to remove it.

 

[DJD100]

Back in the early 90's there an older gentleman who used to frequent our venue on industry nights. His wife had died and so he used his generous pension to collect guitars even though he didn't play. He asked if he could bring a guitar in once in a while for me to check out and maybe play a set on. Now, at the time, I was a total non-believer in vintage voodoo. I had some older instruments but none that really qualified as collectible.

We settled into a routine where, once a week, he would bring some lovely old beast and I would check it out and maybe do a quick setup and, then, if it proved to be playable play a set or two with it. It was fun, he enjoyed hearing his baby played and the band turned it into kind of a "hey, come hear a vintage guitar night" thing. Several old Strats, Les Pauls and some oddballs passed through my hands. However, I was generally all too happy to get his guitars back in his hands at the end of the night.

That was, up until the night he brought in a mid-fifties Strat that looked really rough and, in spite of everything I could. do, was just passable from a playability point. However, once I plugged it in, I ended up playing it the rest of the night. That was the only time I asked him about selling one of his guitars. He told me what he had paid and I gulped and then offered him that plus my rig and the two guitars I had at the club that night. He wasn't interested.

Same thing with that 54 I had way back when, and though I had it for a couple of weeks the seller who was a friend backed out of the deal so I had to give it back (and get my money back), bummer, best sounding Strat I've ever played though it looked like crap with it's finish stripped.

 

[Anand Mahangoe]

Back in the early 90's there an older gentleman who used to frequent our venue on industry nights. His wife had died and so he used his generous pension to collect guitars even though he didn't play. He asked if he could bring a guitar in once in a while for me to check out and maybe play a set on. Now, at the time, I was a total non-believer in vintage voodoo. I had some older instruments but none that really qualified as collectible.

We settled into a routine where, once a week, he would bring some lovely old beast and I would check it out and maybe do a quick setup and, then, if it proved to be playable play a set or two with it. It was fun, he enjoyed hearing his baby played and the band turned it into kind of a "hey, come hear a vintage guitar night" thing. Several old Strats, Les Pauls and some oddballs passed through my hands. However, I was generally all too happy to get his guitars back in his hands at the end of the night.

That was, up until the night he brought in a mid-fifties Strat that looked really rough and, in spite of everything I could. do, was just passable from a playability point. However, once I plugged it in, I ended up playing it the rest of the night. That was the only time I asked him about selling one of his guitars. He told me what he had paid and I gulped and then offered him that plus my rig and the two guitars I had at the club that night. He wasn't interested.

Wow , these are nice stories man !! What happened with the nice gentleman and his guitars ?

 

[Andy Eagle]

Logos is a big deal . Many original guitars have repro logo for whatever reason because they are over the finish and quite vulnerable.
BUT most repro logos are garbage (including reissue Fender), Fender didn't get the font right for years and they are made differently and that shows in the final result.

Originals are four layers of screen printing. Clear, gold/silver, black and a top coat if clear.
This gives them a distinct texture that is missing on ones made any other way;

There is a 3D element to each layer and you can see the slight step in the double layer of the clear around the edge.
This is a restoration quality repro the exact same as originals and way better than Fender custom shop use.


Pre CBS logos start without pat numbers and add them as they were granted (and Leo needed a new batch).
This is the full range of pre CBS spaghetti logos.
Top 1954~1960.
Middle 1961 only ( a few may run over ).
Bottom 1962 ~ 1964.
We then went transition.

Obviously this one is original .
You can see discolouration in the gold because it contained bronze powder and has oxidised.

Modern repros are almost always laser printed on decal paper and then the better ones have a clear coat sprayed to look textured.
This looks too sharp with no 3d texture to the layers and the really bad ones don't use metallic ink even.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Fortunately the vast majority of reissue and replacement necks and bodies are sufficiently wrong as to be easily dismissed however well finished.
Nobody gets the headstock right and nobody ever does the transition anything close.
The best headstock and transition I have seen is the first JV vintage from 82 but it has over things wrong (metric dots and 56mm heel instead of 55.5mm also metric).
Bodies are just as bad;
Mostly just the wrong shape and transition to the neck pocket .
I can spot a Warmoth from the other side of the room for this error.


Early paint stick finished body also seems to have nail holes.
You can see the pin router start/stop marks (not on CNC repros).

 

[Andy Eagle]

50s body;

painted neck pocket and nail holes.

pin router.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Best repro;

Painted in 50s nitro exact same process on nails (by Me).

Another from the same guys also painted by me.

 

[Riccardo Ros]

please stop, now I feel like I CANNOT LIVE without a vintage sunburst strat

 

[Andy Eagle]

If you removed an name and added the router marks (pretty easy) then relic painted it could you tell?

This one is not using the best repro parts and I'm not trying to fool anyone but say I did?
There are guys out there who could easily produce instrument that could 'pass' using only parts that have al been commercially available BUT for the switch and pots. Fakers used to buy these nos or pull them out of considerably less valuable instruments but this is not as easy as it was.

 

[Anand Mahangoe]

Logos is a big deal . Many original guitars have repro logo for whatever reason because they are over the finish and quite vulnerable.
BUT most repro logos are garbage (including reissue Fender), Fender didn't get the font right for years and they are made differently and that shows in the final result.

Originals are four layers of screen printing. Clear, gold/silver, black and a top coat if clear.
This gives them a distinct texture that is missing on ones made any other way;
View attachment 114234
There is a 3D element to each layer and you can see the slight step in the double layer of the clear around the edge.
This is a restoration quality repro the exact same as originals and way better than Fender custom shop use.


Pre CBS logos start without pat numbers and add them as they were granted (and Leo needed a new batch).View attachment 114235
This is the full range of pre CBS spaghetti logos.
Top 1954~1960.
Middle 1961 only ( a few may run over ).
Bottom 1962 ~ 1964.
We then went transition.
View attachment 114236
Obviously this one is original .
You can see discolouration in the gold because it contained bronze powder and has oxidised.

Modern repros are almost always laser printed on decal paper and then the better ones have a clear coat sprayed to look textured.
This looks too sharp with no 3d texture to the layers and the really bad ones don't use metallic ink even.

Oh man, love to read these details !! Appreciated !!

 

[Anand Mahangoe]

50s body;
View attachment 114239
painted neck pocket and nail holes.
View attachment 114240
pin router.
View attachment 114241

Oh yea, read about the nail holes and pin router !! Great info ! Don’t you have a vlog / website with all these details for future buyers ?

 

[Anand Mahangoe]

L

If you removed an name and added the router marks (pretty easy) then relic painted it could you tell?
View attachment 114244
This one is not using the best repro parts and I'm not trying to fool anyone but say I did?
There are guys out there who could easily produce instrument that could 'pass' using only parts that have al been commercially available BUT for the switch and pots. Fakers used to buy these nos or pull them out of considerably less valuable instruments but this is not as easy as it was.

front the looks , I guess not….. but how is the feel and body neck resonance….compared to the old wood ?

 

[Andy Eagle]

Headstock:

original 61 transition.
best repro;

Clearly wrong but after a bit of work;

Headstock needs a tweak now;

and finished.

 

[Andy Eagle]

L

front the looks , I guess not….. but how is the feel and body neck resonance….compared to the old wood ?

Depend if you start with a very selected piece of wood . I could do one in old wood but the right grain structure is enough to get it right. If you wanted to match wood you can but you would have to reject a lot and preferably get natural seasoned old growth.

 

[markwayne]

Wow , these are nice stories man !! What happened with the nice gentleman and his guitars ?

Considering his age at the time (this was over 30 years ago), I'm fairly certain he's no longer with us. His wife was gone and I don't believe they had any children so I do wonder what happened to those instruments. We lost touch after I moved to Atlanta. He, along with all my other acquaintances from the pre-cell-phone/email days, had only my father's home phone number as a way to track me down and my father passed away a decade ago.

I still marvel that a complete non-player had amassed a collection that large. I like to think we gave him a solid year of good memories and a glimpse at a path not taken. I offered to give him lessons a couple of times but he felt he was too old.

 

[redhedded1]

It would be cool to play one of these. I don’t think I could handle owning one, I’d be too nervous the strap would pop off or something. I like to play, so I’d go for a Silver Sky myself…they meticulously captured the tone of a vintage Strat as far as I can tell. Those give me the goose bumps when I’ve had a chance to play one.

 

[Anand Mahangoe]

Considering his age at the time (this was over 30 years ago), I'm fairly certain he's no longer with us. His wife was gone and I don't believe they had any children so I do wonder what happened to those instruments. We lost touch after I moved to Atlanta. He, along with all my other acquaintances from the pre-cell-phone/email days, had only my father's home phone number as a way to track me down and my father passed away a decade ago.

I still marvel that a complete non-player had amassed a collection that large. I like to think we gave him a solid year of good memories and a glimpse at a path not taken. I offered to give him lessons a couple of times but he felt he was too old.

thanks man and too bad not to know what happened to those old guitars...somebody probably got a very good deal .....Thanks !

 

[RalphNYC]

I went through a period 15 years ago when I had a lot of vintage guitars. Fenders and Gibsons. They are much more than guitars - they are collector items, they are sort of historical documents, they are close enough to hand made to have all kinds of variations. They are in a way works of art. They look different , feel different- yes they smell different. Guess it’s the glue in the old cases. They radiate a kind of magic. But purely as instruments - in my opinion- they aren’t superior to new guitars. On average. To crack open a thermometer case and pull out a 1950 Broadcaster is just a freaking rush. I think that’s why people buy them. Nocaster relics will get the job done 100% if you need a cool guitar.