Seymor duncan 170

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Fixated

Inspired
I just received the seymor duncan powerstage 170 and mesaboogie rectifier cabinet 2x12 in the mail. I have already read the manual and many of the forum posts about the seymor duncan 170 but I just want to make sure I am using it correctly.

When hooking everything up I put speaker drive and speaker compression to 0 in the amp block (as per manual) and then set the output mode to ss pwr amp+cab. Is this correct?

My biggest questions are:

1. Should I use the 2x12 recto speaker imp. curve or is it okay to still use 4x12 speaker imp curves.
2. Should I max output 1 on the axe fx 3 hardware unit and then adjust the volume on the seymor duncan, or should I put the seymor duncan volume to noon and then adjust output 1 on the axe?

I hope everything makes sense.
 
1. Use whichever sounds best. However, Cliff’s instructions on how to determine your cabinet’s resonant frequency can help you get the best results: https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Connections_and_levels#Setups

(My 1960a w/g12t75’s was resonant at 138-140 and my Orange PPC412 w/ v30’s at 104-106, both of which are different from fractal’s stock impedance curves for those cabs)

2. The Matrix amps reportedly sound best at 2 o’clock or more. My Waza TAE sounds best around the halfway point and gets noisy when turned up past 75%. Watch the input levels into your power amp and try some different combinations to see what you like best.

*Also, set your speaker breakup to “hard” and let the real speakers do the breaking up.
 
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I’m not too sure about the low resonance frequency for speaker impedance is necessarily the same frequency as cabinet resonance

Someone correct me if I’m wrong

1. Use whatever sounds best to you but for accuracy sake you could use the 2x12 recto speaker imp curve (close but not exact of your cab…if being extremely accurate)
 
lastcaress83 said:
1. Use whichever sounds best. However, Cliff’s instructions on how to determine your cabinet’s resonant frequency can help you get the best results: https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Connections_and_levels#Setups

(My 1960a w/g12t75’s was resonant at 138-140 and my Orange PPC412 w/ v30’s at 104-106, both of which are different from fractal’s stock impedance curves for those cabs)

2. The Matrix amps reportedly sound best at 2 o’clock or more. My Waza TAE sounds best around the halfway point and gets noisy when turned up past 75%. Watch the input levels into your power amp and try some different combinations to see what you like best.

*Also, set your speaker breakup to “hard” and let the real speakers do the breaking up.
Click to expand...
Wow read the link. Lots of info. Didn’t know that page was there. Thanks a lot
 
ApocalypticKatana said:
I’m not too sure about the low resonance frequency for speaker impedance is necessarily the same frequency as cabinet resonance

Someone correct me if I’m wrong

1. Use whatever sounds best to you but for accuracy sake you could use the 2x12 recto speaker imp curve (close but not exact of your cab…if being extremely accurate)
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot
 
It is my understanding with the PS, set Ouput Mode to FRFR since it is a Class D amp. EDIT - PS would not apply, based on new replies. Thanks!


"Added Output Mode to Amp block. The default value, FRFR, is the classic mode and designed for use with monitors or recording. The SS PA + Cab mode is intended for use with a solid-state power amp and conventional guitar cab. In this mode speaker compression modeling behaves differently relying on the speaker for compression while still simulating the interaction with the power amp. NOTE: this mode is not intended for use with current drive power amps, i.e. tube power amps, Class-D current feedback amps (Quilter Tone Block), etc. NOTE: this mode CAN be used with FRFR monitors in high volume applications where the monitor’s speakers are compressing thereby achieving a more dynamic response."
 
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lastcaress83 said:
1. Use whichever sounds best. However, Cliff’s instructions on how to determine your cabinet’s resonant frequency can help you get the best results: https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Connections_and_levels#Setups

(My 1960a w/g12t75’s was resonant at 138-140 and my Orange PPC412 w/ v30’s at 104-106, both of which are different from fractal’s stock impedance curves for those cabs)

2. The Matrix amps reportedly sound best at 2 o’clock or more. My Waza TAE sounds best around the halfway point and gets noisy when turned up past 75%. Watch the input levels into your power amp and try some different combinations to see what you like best.

*Also, set your speaker breakup to “hard” and let the real speakers do the breaking up.
Click to expand...
I forgot to ask. Do you use the speaker break up on hard for clean and heavy tones ?
 
mtb said:
It is my understanding with the PS, set Ouput Mode to FRFR since it is a Class D amp.


"Added Output Mode to Amp block. The default value, FRFR, is the classic mode and designed for use with monitors or recording. The SS PA + Cab mode is intended for use with a solid-state power amp and conventional guitar cab. In this mode speaker compression modeling behaves differently relying on the speaker for compression while still simulating the interaction with the power amp. NOTE: this mode is not intended for use with current drive power amps, i.e. tube power amps, Class-D current feedback amps (Quilter Tone Block), etc. NOTE: this mode CAN be used with FRFR monitors in high volume applications where the monitor’s speakers are compressing thereby achieving a more dynamic response."
Click to expand...
Oh wow interesting thanks a lot I’ll try it
 
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mtb said:
It is my understanding with the PS, set Ouput Mode to FRFR since it is a Class D amp.


"Added Output Mode to Amp block. The default value, FRFR, is the classic mode and designed for use with monitors or recording. The SS PA + Cab mode is intended for use with a solid-state power amp and conventional guitar cab. In this mode speaker compression modeling behaves differently relying on the speaker for compression while still simulating the interaction with the power amp. NOTE: this mode is not intended for use with current drive power amps, i.e. tube power amps, Class-D current feedback amps (Quilter Tone Block), etc. NOTE: this mode CAN be used with FRFR monitors in high volume applications where the monitor’s speakers are compressing thereby achieving a more dynamic response."
Click to expand...
If I use frfr mode would I turn speaker drive back up?
 
I have a PS-200. I have my output set to 9:00 and output on AXE FX III about 10:00 or 11:00 but try what works for you. Vertical Mesa 2x12. I use default cab resonance for 2x12 Recto but you can try any you think sounds the best.

For Speaker Drive, I say go with your ears, I don’t think there is a true right way. I think some of my patches have it set low, some higher, some off.
 
mtb said:
I have a PS-200. I have my output set to 9:00 and output on AXE FX III about 10:00 or 11:00 but try what works for you. Vertical Mesa 2x12. I use default cab resonance for 2x12 Recto but you can try any you think sounds the best.

For Speaker Drive, I say go with your ears, I don’t think there is a true right way. I think some of my patches have it set low, some higher, some off.
Click to expand...
Thanks again for the fast reply. I think I should have purchased the 200 for presence control
 
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mtb said:
It is my understanding with the PS, set Ouput Mode to FRFR since it is a Class D amp.


"Added Output Mode to Amp block. The default value, FRFR, is the classic mode and designed for use with monitors or recording. The SS PA + Cab mode is intended for use with a solid-state power amp and conventional guitar cab. In this mode speaker compression modeling behaves differently relying on the speaker for compression while still simulating the interaction with the power amp. NOTE: this mode is not intended for use with current drive power amps, i.e. tube power amps, Class-D current feedback amps (Quilter Tone Block), etc. NOTE: this mode CAN be used with FRFR monitors in high volume applications where the monitor’s speakers are compressing thereby achieving a more dynamic response."
Click to expand...
I interpret this as referring to a specific type of Class D amplifier (current feedback) the most common example of which is the Quilter Tone Block. I don’t think this refers to non-current feedback Class-D amps like the Matrix GTs and the Duncan Power Stage amps.
 
Fixated said:
I forgot to ask. Do you use the speaker break up on hard for clean and heavy tones ?
Click to expand...

I think setting it to “hard” would be the most accurate. There doesn’t seem to be a ton of info on this parameter.

I reckon if it changes the way the amplifier behaves in response to the speaker, then it may be useful to try different settings since your solid state amp won’t act the same as a tube amp.

However, if it changes how the virtual speaker reacts to the amp, hard would seem to be the most neutral/least reactive/most accurate.
 
Fixated said:
Awesome man. Is there a lot of clean headroom? What do you have the level set to on the ps170
Click to expand...

It's up around halfway and I use the output of my FM9 (or III) to control my overall volume, I think I've had it up about 75% of the way and it was fine. I haven't gotten to crank it up all the way, even when I gigged with it that would have been way too loud for the rooms I was in and I live in an apartment. I've heard people say it can get boxy when cranked all the way up, but I'm curious if that's more their speakers than the 170 itself.

From all I've used it for the last year and a half, I get the feeling it'll handle just fine, it's a really clean sounding power amp. Same goes for the TC BAM200, which I'd actually buy again over the 170 just because it's considerably cheaper and does the same thing. In some ways I prefer the TC.
 
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