Setting up patches for Cab+Poweramp + Direct Recording/Headphones?

[Synchronicity]

Hi there guys, hope you're all good!


Just wondering if anyone can point me towards a guide to getting the following set-up worked out properly (I'm sure many of you are using this sort of setup, albeit with some slight differences).


I'm currently using AXE FX II > Mono L Output 1 > Eden Bass poweramp (I know...) > Mono Input Zilla 2x12 Cab

I would like to be able to have that setup normally, with no cabinet modelling.

Then

AXE FX II > USB to PC > Headphones (while also having the PC playback through headphones, but not out of the cab.

While having cab simulation turned ON for the PC/Headphones section...


Would this involve using parallel setups, and 2 seperate horizontal signal "paths" on Axe Edit, that somehow decide which output they will affect? I'm a little bit confused thinking about it, as I have been using the AXE FX II primarily entirely through headphones for the past 2 years (Yes I know again haha.... amazing the difference with having the guitar>speaker interaction compared to isolated through just headphones).


Any help or links would be very much appreciated.

Thanks!


P.S - I've read a bit just now about using the FX loop to send a seperate signal to the different outputs, but this involves putting my cab after the effects, which is drastically changing the tone of some of my presets (especially cleans with lots of delays and chorus etc..), is there a way to avoid doing this?

 

[hotlegs]

Use Out 2 for amp / cab (eden and zilla) with FX block in a seperate row before cab block.

 

[chris]

but this involves putting my cab after the effects, which is drastically changing the tone of some of my presets (especially cleans with lots of delays and chorus etc..), is there a way to avoid doing this?

placing the cab last typically does not change tone drastically, with a few exceptions. can you upload your preset and/or post a screenshot of when things are drastically changed with the cab placed last? it'd be great to see the cab block settings too in the pic, at least first tab.

are you using Cab Preamp? Motor drive?

here is my article about this setup: http://axefxtutorials.com/2014/09/h...but-without-cab-sims-to-a-guitar-amp-and-cab/

 

[Synchronicity]

placing the cab last typically does not change tone drastically, with a few exceptions. can you upload your preset and/or post a screenshot of when things are drastically changed with the cab placed last? it'd be great to see the cab block settings too in the pic, at least first tab.

are you using Cab Preamp? Motor drive?

here is my article about this setup: http://axefxtutorials.com/2014/09/h...but-without-cab-sims-to-a-guitar-amp-and-cab/

Hey Chris, thanks for responding to me, I was actually using your guide as my basis but when I noticed the large tonal difference between having effects before or after the cab block I stopped to see if there was some other way I could route things, like making it routed back around on itself to include the effects before the cab audibly yet not visually?


Heres an image of one of the tones with which is was immediately noticeable that the tone had changed when putting the cab after all the effects.

 

[Hubertus]

You may try a stereo cab block. The signal collapses to mono when you put a mono cab block at the end of the chain.

 

[chris]

Hey Chris, thanks for responding to me, I was actually using your guide as my basis but when I noticed the large tonal difference between having effects before or after the cab block I stopped to see if there was some other way I could route things, like making it routed back around on itself to include the effects before the cab audibly yet not visually?


Heres an image of one of the tones with which is was immediately noticeable that the tone had changed when putting the cab after all the effects.

as Hubertus mentioned, you need a Stereo cab block to keep the other effects from collapsing to Mono.

if stereo signals go into a Mono block (amp, mono cab, i think drive?), they will be collapsed to mono. that's probably the drastic change you hear, which makes sense!

just change the Cab block to a Stereo cab and it should just duplicate left and right settings for now. be sure to pan the sides in the cab full left and right. does that solve the issue?

 

[Synchronicity]

Ah thank you very much Hubtertus and Chris

Just made it stereo and put it at the end, and it does seem to sound exactly the same regardless of where it's place now!


I'm still having trouble splitting my signal though, could this be because I am using the headphone port at the front of the axe fx rather than both output 1 and 2 on the back? Basically I am getting the same sound through headphones and cab currently.

 

[chris]

I'm still having trouble splitting my signal though, could this be because I am using the headphone port at the front of the axe fx rather than both output 1 and 2 on the back? Basically I am getting the same sound through headphones and cab currently.

You need to put the FX Loop block as I show in the article. Right now you aren't splitting anything. Out 1 is the exact same as Headphone output.

Also note that USB audio return only comes to Out 1 and headphones. It can never be sent to Out 2 (which is good for your setup).

 

[Synchronicity]

Like this? Or how you have it in your image, where it is just inline with the rest of the signal path?

I'm a little confused about how it knows/I choose what is sent to output 2 haha

When I add an fx loop anywhere on the layout, is that automatically sending whatever is before the FX loop to output 2?



EDIT: Am I right in thinking then that any signal that reaches the end of the layout (Output) is automatically assigned to Output 1, and an FXLoop automatically assigns whatever is leading up to to Output 2, but because of having it in a straight line it is not affecting everything in the signal chain of that straight line leading to the Output section?

 

[chris]

When I add an fx loop anywhere on the layout, is that automatically sending whatever is before the FX loop to output 2?

What you did doesn't match any of my examples though.

Yes, anything before the FX Loop block is sent to out 2. That's why we want the Cab block after the FX Loop block.

The far right tall Output block represents Out 1. Anything before that (therefore everything) will be sent to Out 1 as long as it's connected to that Output block.

There is no reason for the shunt and 2nd row in your picture.

It's a good practice to split the FX Loop block into a separate row for a few reasons. Look at my article again; it explains these things.

 

[Synchronicity]

What you did doesn't match any of my examples though.

Yes, anything before the FX Loop block is sent to out 2. That's why we want the Cab block after the FX Loop block.

The far right tall Output block represents Out 1. Anything before that (therefore everything) will be sent to Out 1 as long as it's connected to that Output block.

There is no reason for the shunt and 2nd row in your picture.

It's a good practice to split the FX Loop block into a separate row for a few reasons. Look at my article again; it explains these things.

Ah ok thanks very much Chris, I was sort of not grasping the fact that the FX Loop automatically sent stuff to Output 2, as I thought that was something that might have had to been specified in a certain parameter or something on the I/O menus of the front panel.

It's too late here at my house to use the cab today but I will try tomorrow, from how this is setup, should this give me -

PC Playback + full effected tone (cab sim) = Headphones
and
Just guitar signal upto the FX Loop = Cabinet?


Thanks again for your guidance and patience! (I'm usually good with technology, but amp modelers have some how always been somewhat unintuitive to me haha), In the near future I will be sure to make a small donation for your great services to this community via your tutorials and help!

 

[chris]

that should do it.