Setting Initial Value of FC12 Expression Pedal Controller at Scene/Channel Level?

j20056

j20056

Inspired
New FC12 user. As I replaced my Behringer FCB1010 which was MIDI based, I was using MIDI based expression pedals linked to AxeFX3 controllers.
For one of them controlling my wet/dry mix, I was able to send a MIDI message from a MIDI block back to the AxeFX3, as long as I had a MIDI loop and was using Out, not Thru. That worked and I was able to set the pedal initial value to anything I wanted.
Now that my expression pedals are no longer MIDI since I am using the 4 pedals in the FC12, how can I program my scenes so that I can set one of the pedals and the related controller to an initial value between 0 and 100%? I know this can be done at the preset level, but I need scene level.
 
As far as I know there's no option for doing that at a scene or channel level.

You can look at the PC Reset option of the modifiers but that only applies to presets.
 
well I can always go back to one of my expression pedals being MIDI-based, but then I have to create a MIDI loop and with the FC12, it creates huge latency for my VooDoo Control Switcher when changing channels of my real amp via MIDI blocks. This is the topic of another post in this sub-forum. I did not have that latency issue with the Behringer FCB1010 pedalboard. Sort of stuck now as preset level is not sufficient.
 
I use an expression to MIDI gizmo called DoReMIDI, which seems similar to what you mention above. As stated above, this would help scene level via MIDI block, but the pesky latency mentioned in the other thread is a show stopper with the FC12 right now.
 
What specifically are you trying to do? Usually there’s a different way to approach it - for example, if you’re just wanting to control scene level, there are ways to set the scene level using other controls, and then just use the XPDL to increase (or decrease) from there when necessary.

Similar for wet/dry mix - I set it on individual FX blocks or FX chains (which can be specific to a channel/scene) then I have a global micro-expression pedal that can increase/decrease the global wet/dry mix from wherever the current scene is set.
 
i think they want a different value for a parameter for every scene, when you load the scene, but then also be able to control it from an expression pedal.
 
I may be wrong, but there may be ways to accomplish something like that? We would need very specific info on it's implementation, and at least one sample preset to see for ourselves what parameter/parameters are being used, and how.

With the new 'gapless switching', is just saving each 'scene' as a separate preset an option?
 
To simplify let’s say I have a preset with a dry signal in row 1 and a wet signal in row 2. I use a mixer block to control the levels with an expression pedal, going from all dry (heel) to all wet (toe) connected to controllers on the mixer block volumes.
I want to use this preset with various scenes and each scene would have a different initial value for the expression.
I was able to get this to work with a MIDI expression pedal as long as I was closing the MIDI loop. Approach was to have the scene level MIDI block to send a CC# set at the desired value. Then moving the expression pedal would modify such initial value if desired.
With the FC12, I bumped into a problem whereby if I create a full MIDI loop in and out of the Axe3, my Voidoo Lab MIDI control switcher (used to control my real amp channels and EQ via scene level MIDI block) suddenly has a 5-10 seconds latency. I was able to solve that by not doing a MiDi loop but then I lose the ability to send CC# to set the initial value.
Ideally though I don’t want to use any MiDi expression pedals and instead connect to the 4 expression pedals from the FC12 rear panel.
The problem there is that I cannot find a way to set the initial value of one of them (wet-dry mixer) at the scene level.

So very simply stated, is there a way to set the initial value of an FC12 expression pedal controller at the scene level? I do not believe it is possible and inserting a single MIDi expression in my chain would no longer work as described above.
So I need a different approach or abandon my goal.
What I really want is the ability to go from -9/+9db versus initial value of the dry mix level as I don’t need the full 0-100% range.
 
i think I answered my own question.
I believe what I can do is eliminate the wet-dry mix pedal, set the initial wet dry mix level to fixed values via mixer channels (which gives me 4 combinations which is sufficient) and then I can set an expression pedal to adjust the volumes of the dry and wet rows in offsetting values over a range of -9/+9db from initial.
I will try this approach.
 
j20056 said:
i think I answered my own question.
I believe what I can do is eliminate the wet-dry mix pedal, set the initial wet dry mix level to fixed values via mixer channels (which gives me 4 combinations which is sufficient) and then I can set an expression pedal to adjust the volumes of the dry and wet rows in offsetting values over a range of -9/+9db from initial.
I will try this approach.
Click to expand...

Yes that's one approach, and there are probably several others that are similar - but in each case you'd be setting the 'initial wet/dry mix for each scene' with one of many available options (mixer, output levels on the respect wet and dry chains, wet/dry mix control on the FX blocks themselves, etc.) and then just use the expression pedal to increase or decrease the relative mix using one of the other parameters that affects wet/dry mix. And keep in mind that there is also the global 'effects mix' parameter that could be used if you're not already using it for something else (see page 72 of the AxeFX3 manual ...).

Let us know how it works out!
 
So I implemented the above. There is still a problem. I want to set each of the 8 scenes with their own fixed values of FX mix, that's easy. I also can set the initial value (PC Reset is ON) of the dry/mix level adjustment expression pedal to 0dB, assigning such pedal to the Level control of my Mixer block. Upon loading the preset, the value is set to 0dB irrespective of where the expression pedal is positioned. However, this doesn't work at the Scene level, because if i change the value of the expression pedal, to say -10dB then switch to Scene 2 WITHOUT reloading the preset, then it doesn't work as the PC reset only forces the value of the controller to 0dB upon preset load and not Scene load. So I'm still sort of stuck right now.
 
j20056 said:
So I implemented the above. There is still a problem. I want to set each of the 8 scenes with their own fixed values of FX mix, that's easy. I also can set the initial value (PC Reset is ON) of the dry/mix level adjustment expression pedal to 0dB, assigning such pedal to the Level control of my Mixer block. Upon loading the preset, the value is set to 0dB irrespective of where the expression pedal is positioned. However, this doesn't work at the Scene level, because if i change the value of the expression pedal, to say -10dB then switch to Scene 2 WITHOUT reloading the preset, then it doesn't work as the PC reset only forces the value of the controller to 0dB upon preset load and not Scene load. So I'm still sort of stuck right now.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't think there's an in the box solution...

You could try a midi "loopback" cable plus using the Scene Midi block...
 
Yeah I don’t see a solution to that. The way I do it assumes that the XPDL’s physical position matches what I want as the starting point for the scene - so unless I want it to start at a point different from the ‘baseline’, I always roll back the XPDL either immediately before or immediately after switching scenes. But for my small board in particular I do that anyway - i.e., since the XPDL is controlling different parameters on different scenes, I instinctively check/adjust its position when switching scenes.

Instead of using XPDL, consider using switches to increment/decrement, since on the Fractal platform they can be set to any state for the scene - so the state is always where you want it when the scene loads, regardless of where it was previously. This is why I mostly use switches for solo boosts instead of using an XPDL, even though I prefer the smoothness and continuous adjustability of the XPDL.
 
Rumbletone said:
Yeah I don’t see a solution to that. The way I do it assumes that the XPDL’s physical position matches what I want as the starting point for the scene - so unless I want it to start at a point different from the ‘baseline’, I always roll back the XPDL either immediately before or immediately after switching scenes. But for my small board in particular I do that anyway - i.e., since the XPDL is controlling different parameters on different scenes, I instinctively check/adjust its position when switching scenes.

Instead of using XPDL, consider using switches to increment/decrement, since on the Fractal platform they can be set to any state for the scene - so the state is always where you want it when the scene loads, regardless of where it was previously. This is why I mostly use switches for solo boosts instead of using an XPDL, even though I prefer the smoothness and continuous adjustability of the XPDL.
Click to expand...
Control switches can't be set wherever you want per scene. They can be set to On/Off/Last.

The OP wants to set a starting value per scene and then be able adjust as needed from there with the expression pedal.
 
unix-guy said:
Control switches can't be set wherever you want per scene. They can be set to On/Off/Last.

The OP wants to set a starting value per scene and then be able adjust as needed from there with the expression pedal.
Click to expand...

Yes - but as proposed above, the base w/d mix per scene can set elsewhere (not with the switch or XPDL) and the switches would be used just to boost (or cut) from there, and they can be set on or off (or last) per scene - though unlike the XPDL they would just be binary per switch (not continuous). Though if multiple switches are used to modify different level/mix controls within the same scene it can, in effect, be more than ‘min or max’ - for example, one switch boosts the delay mix 20% (by modifying output level on the parallel delay block), another boosts it 10% (for example, by modifying the level on a volume or EQ block placed after the delay block), so you can vary it by 0%, 10%, 20%, or 30% using 2 switches, and that can be programmed per preset by setting the respective switches on/off.

This doesn’t do what the OP originally asked, but I’m proposing a workaround that still allows the ‘starting’ w/d mix to be set per scene and then uses switches to go up (or down) from there when needed. Which I’m suggesting because I had the same use case as OP, and this is one option I’ve found as an alternative.
 
This sounds like a very usable solution to what I'm trying to do, so I will look into it as I don't need a continuous adjustment. By the way, MIDI loop was my original solution, when I used the Behringer FCB1010 MIDI board and it worked perfectly. However, after switching to the FC-12, it no longer works as the loop results in a 6-8 second delay for my MIDI block to switch my real amp channel via VooDoo Control Switcher. If I break the loop, the channel switching is instantaneous.
I will try the above and report back.
 
I was able to use a FC-12 Control Switch, and I assigned CS1 to a modifier that controls the Level of my Mixer block through which all Wet signal passes. I set the Min value to 0dB and the Max Value to 10dB. In turn, the CS1 purple switch on the FC12 seems to set the level to either of the two values and acts as an On/Off booster. Is this the method you were proposing?
From there, how can I make it incremental, like ADD to the previous value so that if press 3x, then it would do 30db? Assuming that's doable, I would set the increments at 3dB more likely.
 
j20056 said:
I was able to use a FC-12 Control Switch, and I assigned CS1 to a modifier that controls the Level of my Mixer block through which all Wet signal passes. I set the Min value to 0dB and the Max Value to 10dB. In turn, the CS1 purple switch on the FC12 seems to set the level to either of the two values and acts as an On/Off booster. Is this the method you were proposing?
From there, how can I make it incremental, like ADD to the previous value so that if press 3x, then it would do 30db? Assuming that's doable, I would set the increments at 3dB more likely.
Click to expand...
It's not possible as far as I'm aware.
 
Back to the main question though, how can I control the On/Off status of the CS1/CS2 at the scene level? Meaning that I would like both to be set to Off when I load a scene or a preset, irrespective of current status?
 
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