Seems I'm done with FRs, recommendations

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Under_Pressure

Member
So,
I've been in the Journey of FRFRs and there's always an issue. Funny enough, tone never has been the main issue, I can make it sound any FR I've owned the way I like. I currently have a Fender FR-12, FR10, and a Friedman ASC-10. The 3 sound different, but with EQ changes I can make any of them to sound good or similar.

Well, if they all sound good where is the problem then? The problem is directionality. They all sound great at home, but at rehearsals or gigs they are too directional.
If I leave them flat on the floor, the tone I hear freaking sucks and they get lost in the mix. If I angle it like a monitor, they sound good, BUT no one else in the band hear me clearly. Very often in rehearsals, the durmmer or other guys ask me to turn Up, while I find I'm pretty loud actually. I know I am shooting high dB, is just the sound is so focussed that it gets lost in the room.

My last ground breaking moment was last rehearsal, we have a new rhythm player, guy came with a freaking Blues Jr. (small 15W tube amp) the guy literally ate me for breakfast. Amp just sitting on the floor was so freaking loud I had to ask him to turn down a bit. I recorded the rehearsal with my Tascam and just confirmed the same thing, guy pops, I'm getting lost. I could turn up more my FR, but I don't want to, I know I'm really blasting! I've been playing for 30 years.

So i've been really thinking in switching to some sort of hybrid system like Fryette PS2 + real cab. It's just 2 things that make doubt, 1 is weight an portability, and the other is getting stuck with 1 sound, I like to switch sounds in my presets, sometimes I use an AC30, then a Plexi, then a Fender, etc. And that's the main reason I've been using an FR. I'm afraid of getting stuck with 1 type of sound if I switch to a real cab, well, that's the way I played my whole life, but to me defeats what I like most from a modeller, versatility.

Recommendations? Thanks
 
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If I understand the problem correctly, you find your speakers too directional.
If you want to continue playing with a full-range solution, you might need to look at PA speakers designed to be less directional.
Barefaced offers a speaker designed for very wide dispersion, with a tweeter on the back and an F12-X200 on the front... worth checking out.
I also used the CLR Wedge NEO, which have very wide dispersion; I could always hear myself very well even when using the wedge position and with a second guitarist, but they don't seem to be available anymore.
 
Yes, that’s basically the problem.
I’ve been looking to the Barefaced Reality actually, it is an innovative design, only issue is after the exchange and taxes to Canada the thing gets excessively expensive for what it is.
 
Under_Pressure said:
Yes, that’s basically the problem.
I’ve been looking to the Barefaced Reality actually, it is an innovative design, only issue is after the exchange and taxes to Canada the thing gets excessively expensive for what it is.
Click to expand...
Yes, unfortunately! I have two passive reformer 112s fitted with Jensen N12D speakers.
 
Under_Pressure said:
So,
I've been in the Journey of FRFRs and there's always an issue. Funny enough, tone never has been the main issue, I can make it sound any FR I've owned the way I like. I currently have a Fender FR-12, FR10, and a Friedman ASC-10. The 3 sound different, but with EQ changes I can make any of them to sound good or similar.

Well, if they all sound good where is the problem then? The problem is directionality. They all sound great at home, but at rehearsals or gigs they are too directional.
If I leave them flat on the floor, the tone I hear freaking sucks and they get lost in the mix. If I angle it like a monitor, they sound good, BUT no one else in the band hear me clearly. Very often in rehearsals, the durmmer or other guys ask me to turn Up, while I find I'm pretty loud actually. I know I am shooting high dB, is just the sound is so focussed that it gets lost in the room.

My last ground breaking moment was last rehearsal, we have a new rhythm player, guy came with a freaking Blues Jr. (small 15W tube amp) the guy literally ate me for breakfast. Amp just sitting on the floor was so freaking loud I had to ask him to turn down a bit. I recorded the rehearsal with my Tascam and just confirmed the same thing, guy pops, I'm getting lost. I could turn up more my FR, but I don't want to, I know I'm really blasting! I've been playing for 30 years.

So i've been really thinking in switching to some sort of hybrid system like Fryette PS2 + real cab. It's just 2 things that make doubt, 1 is weight an portability, and the other is getting stuck with 1 sound, I like to switch sounds in my presets, sometimes I use an AC30, then a Plexi, then a Fender, etc. And that's the main reason I've been using an FR. I'm afraid of getting stuck with 1 type of sound if I switch to a real cab, well, that's the way I played my whole life, but to me defeats what I like most from a modeller, versatility.

Recommendations? Thanks
Click to expand...
Have you tried elevating the cab to around waist level and /or different placement locations? Getting the speaker is a place where it can be more effective to you and others with out having to turn it up can be a quick and easy fix! Also don't forget to make use of EQ ;)

Any cab soultion that sits on the ground never works very well unless you can put some distance between you and the cab to give the sound a chance to fan out.
 
Under_Pressure said:
So,
I've been in the Journey of FRFRs and there's always an issue. Funny enough, tone never has been the main issue, I can make it sound any FR I've owned the way I like. I currently have a Fender FR-12, FR10, and a Friedman ASC-10. The 3 sound different, but with EQ changes I can make any of them to sound good or similar.

Well, if they all sound good where is the problem then? The problem is directionality. They all sound great at home, but at rehearsals or gigs they are too directional.
If I leave them flat on the floor, the tone I hear freaking sucks and they get lost in the mix. If I angle it like a monitor, they sound good, BUT no one else in the band hear me clearly. Very often in rehearsals, the durmmer or other guys ask me to turn Up, while I find I'm pretty loud actually. I know I am shooting high dB, is just the sound is so focussed that it gets lost in the room.

My last ground breaking moment was last rehearsal, we have a new rhythm player, guy came with a freaking Blues Jr. (small 15W tube amp) the guy literally ate me for breakfast. Amp just sitting on the floor was so freaking loud I had to ask him to turn down a bit. I recorded the rehearsal with my Tascam and just confirmed the same thing, guy pops, I'm getting lost. I could turn up more my FR, but I don't want to, I know I'm really blasting! I've been playing for 30 years.

So i've been really thinking in switching to some sort of hybrid system like Fryette PS2 + real cab. It's just 2 things that make doubt, 1 is weight an portability, and the other is getting stuck with 1 sound, I like to switch sounds in my presets, sometimes I use an AC30, then a Plexi, then a Fender, etc. And that's the main reason I've been using an FR. I'm afraid of getting stuck with 1 type of sound if I switch to a real cab, well, that's the way I played my whole life, but to me defeats what I like most from a modeller, versatility.

Recommendations? Thanks
Click to expand...

This mirrors my experiences.

FR is great ... for personal monitoring. I get great sound with FR monitors on the floor before.

But when using FR in the traditional backline setup (behind me, facing the band), issues arise, and there's no 100% solution.

Turning up the volume level is NOT the solution. Applying high-cuts and low-cuts, increasing mids, using better IRs etc, do help, but again, there's no 100% fix.

Many years ago, I stopped using FR for backline purposes and started using a neutral power amp + guitar cab instead. Love it, not going back.
FR monitoring is not a replacement for that. Even though I realize there are musicians who make it work.

But again, FR as a regular floor monitor on stage: no problem.
 
IMO this has been figured out over time. Studio and live sounds are not the same.

Just because we can now move the studio sounds to the gigs the realities are still the same.

I’ve always been happiest playing through an oversized 1x12 than any other system in an uncontrolled environment. In a controlled environment I happily knock my socks off with every studio trick in reach and use near field monitors or headphones with a big smile.
 
yek said:
Many years ago, I stopped using FR for backline purposes and started using a neutral power amp + guitar cab instead. Love it, not going back.
FR monitoring is not a replacement for that. Even though I realize there are musicians who make it work.
Click to expand...
I'm curious. Is that a power amp in a rack, or one of the small boxes you can mount on a board? Do you have experience to share with any of the small board-mountable power amps? Thanks!
 
yek said:
This mirrors my experiences.

FR is great ... for personal monitoring. I get great sound with FR monitors on the floor before.

But when using FR in the traditional backline setup (behind me, facing the band), issues arise, and there's no 100% solution.

Turning up the volume level is NOT the solution. Applying high-cuts and low-cuts, increasing mids, using better IRs etc, do help, but again, there's no 100% fix.

Many years ago, I stopped using FR for backline purposes and started using a neutral power amp + guitar cab instead. Love it, not going back.
FR monitoring is not a replacement for that. Even though I realize there are musicians who make it work.

But again, FR as a regular floor monitor on stage: no problem.
Click to expand...
We're all monitored on stage, and I use the second channel of my CLR for monitoring voici, bass and kick, so no problem with directionnality. Been using the CLR also as backline amp behind me diagonnally across small bar stages, kicks ass also with its 80° dispersion. Used a Fender junior just with MV on 10 and low drive as a stage backline, no cab in FM3 patch, just EQ low and high cut : sounds great also.
 
Under_Pressure said:
So,
I've been in the Journey of FRFRs and there's always an issue. Funny enough, tone never has been the main issue, I can make it sound any FR I've owned the way I like. I currently have a Fender FR-12, FR10, and a Friedman ASC-10. The 3 sound different, but with EQ changes I can make any of them to sound good or similar.

Well, if they all sound good where is the problem then? The problem is directionality. They all sound great at home, but at rehearsals or gigs they are too directional.
If I leave them flat on the floor, the tone I hear freaking sucks and they get lost in the mix. If I angle it like a monitor, they sound good, BUT no one else in the band hear me clearly. Very often in rehearsals, the durmmer or other guys ask me to turn Up, while I find I'm pretty loud actually. I know I am shooting high dB, is just the sound is so focussed that it gets lost in the room.

My last ground breaking moment was last rehearsal, we have a new rhythm player, guy came with a freaking Blues Jr. (small 15W tube amp) the guy literally ate me for breakfast. Amp just sitting on the floor was so freaking loud I had to ask him to turn down a bit. I recorded the rehearsal with my Tascam and just confirmed the same thing, guy pops, I'm getting lost. I could turn up more my FR, but I don't want to, I know I'm really blasting! I've been playing for 30 years.

So i've been really thinking in switching to some sort of hybrid system like Fryette PS2 + real cab. It's just 2 things that make doubt, 1 is weight an portability, and the other is getting stuck with 1 sound, I like to switch sounds in my presets, sometimes I use an AC30, then a Plexi, then a Fender, etc. And that's the main reason I've been using an FR. I'm afraid of getting stuck with 1 type of sound if I switch to a real cab, well, that's the way I played my whole life, but to me defeats what I like most from a modeller, versatility.

Recommendations? Thanks
Click to expand...

My experience:

I own an RCF art 910 (PA speaker) and a Redsound RS12 (FRFR).
They both sound great.
I play FM9 + RS12 outdoor...

But when it comes to indoor, like clubs, I switched to a mini Jubilee with its cab + FM9 4CM for indoor.

To me, the big FM9 sound may get (depends on the band/mix) slightly "lost in the mix" indoor
whereas the amp with cab (2 V30s) just cuts perfectly - and I'm sure it's the cab because I'm just returning a Fractal Xload: tested it and it's not the amp Vs FM9 that makes a difference.
 
Henry said:
I'm curious. Is that a power amp in a rack, or one of the small boxes you can mount on a board? Do you have experience to share with any of the small board-mountable power amps? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Had these:
  • Pedalboard: SD Powerstage, EHX Magnum
  • Rack: Atomic 50/50, Fryette Power Station, Matrix Gt1000fx

I still use the Matrix.
 
In my experience, some closed back guitar cabs can be even more directional. My CLR cab sounds really consistent as I move around it. The two Boogie Thiele cabs with EVM12L's I ran with my Mark IV had a decent spread but still less. The two Recto 2x12 cabs with V30's I ran with my TriAxis rig before that were FAR more directional. Those things were like a lightsaber of treble death directly on axis, but take a couple of steps to either side and it was often dark and hard to hear on stage. I used to sometimes turn one around backwards to bounce off the wall so I could hear myself better. Ghetto beam blockers (duct tape on the grille cloth) helped too.
 
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