Seeking advice on running Axe into Amp and Cab.

Narzugon

Narzugon

Power User
So I installed the latest firmware and instantly fell in love with it (Awesome Cliff!). I've been using the Axe exclusively since the Ultra and have always ran into Studio monitors or FRFR's. I've been using the CLR's for the last couple of years.

Yesterday someone loaned me an old Marshall 9000 50w per side power amp and a 2x12 closed back extension cab with Hellatone Chinese V30's. I've been wanting to try the Axe with a real amp and cab for a long time so now I have my chance.

After a few hours of experimenting my question is do you find that you tweak the amps more when running into a real amp and cab? When running through Studio monitors or the CLR's I rarely do major tweaking on any amp. If anything I'll spend more time finding a cab that I like even though I could get by with a stock cab if I had to.

The reason I ask is I found some amps sounded great out of the gate while some were just thin and lifeless. A quick example would be the FAS Brown sounded great out of the gate while the Train Wreck was thin and lifeless.

Cab modeling = off and cab block removed.
Power Amp Modeling = Tried On and Off.
I was playing between bedroom and small club volume.

I'm sure that some of what I'm experiencing is these various amps being paired with a single real amp and cab where as I'm use to them being paired with their ideal virtual counterparts. And I'm sure that amp colors the shiat out of the sound. But some amps sounded so "off" I'm just curious if I'm missing something.
 
I typically use my 2x12 Port City cab (w/ EV12L and Matrix 1000) - and sometimes use my Yamaha studio monitors. I would say that I generally agree that it seems easier when using my monitors. I don't think I have ever had an amp that has just been lifeless - especially a trainwreck. Did you try to adjust low and high freq in the speaker page? You would be surprised how a little tweaking there helps. From reading around these threads for a few years with a lot of helpful advice from others here, I have found the sweet spot for my cabinet. With FW 7 I am finding that I am doing less and less to make it sound good through my rig. Obviously guitar/pickup choice is key as well.
Try messing with MV, input gain, the new PI bias. I do use the eq a lot more with my cab than I do my monitors. At louder volumes seems I have to take a lot of mids out.
 
If I do any tweaking its just adding a lo-pass/hi-cut Filter block in the FX loop chain. I cut around 10Khz-11Khz that seems to take the thin fizz out of my real cab. BUT...If you're wanting to use REAL amps and AXE-FX tones, try getting a pedal that has stereo out (TC Electronic MIMIQ is what im using, or any hi-end splitter, it doesn't matter) and run one signal to axe-fx and the other to your amp. This allows you full independent tones from each. Best of both worlds. I use an ORange OR 100 and ORange 4X12, and axe-fx tones to FRFR MAckies or FOH, and since the OR has an FX loop I can still send axe-fx effects to my orange! It's totally killer.
 
Jimmytwotimes said:
Did you try to adjust low and high freq in the speaker page? You would be surprised how a little tweaking there helps. From reading around these threads for a few years with a lot of helpful advice from others here, I have found the sweet spot for my cabinet.

Try messing with MV.....
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I didn't even consider the Speaker page of the amp. Makes total sense.

As for the Master Volume, If I run PA modeling off in Global settings, should I run the MV at 10 (generally speaking)?

Also I think I may have found the problem. Try running FAS Wrecker with and without PA modeling. W/O PA modeling it sounds horrbile, can barely distort it and when it does it farts out in a big way. I'm assuming it's because of this taken from the Wiki:

"The secret to a Trainwreck is the output transformer. The impedance ratio is about twice that of other amps. I.e. typical 50W Marshall has a primary impedance of about 3200 ohms. A Trainwreck is about 6500 ohms. The causes the power tubes to clip much sooner."

I've found some amps sound better with PA modeling and some with it off. Which when you think about the Wiki quote, makes sense.
 
The whole process is kind of a personal thing. You will hear every possible setup that can be done. I was going for strictly live.
I'm old school when it comes to amps, but I'm also a computer tech for over 30 years. So I approached the AXE as mixing old with new. I replaced a Triaxis and Gmajor 2. Also using a cab block with a cab will color. So I always pick cabs similar to my real cab and EQ accordingly.

I run my AXE into a Mesa Boogie 2/Fifty amp, through a Mesa Boogie 4 x 12 oversized cab loaded with Celestion Creambacks. Because it's available, I paid for it and I'm stubborn, I wanted to use both amp and cab blocks (I also like cab blocks on better). So as suggested, by the way more knowledgeable users here, I started my presets from scratch (I looked at samples to see layout, settings etc). I sampled the many amp blocks until I found one I liked. Then I sampled the many cab blocks. for my music, I found Solo 100 Rhythm matched with a basket weave 4 x 12 12L cab. Then the fun started. I played with gain, EQ and a few other things to achieve a great sound from clean to moderate to heavy distortion. Once I had my tone i liked, I added gate, compression, effects, WAH, etc. Then I finished by following how to run channel 1 to FOH and Channel 2 to the cab. I used the same process for my 10 presets I use live, ranging from clean, crunch, distortion, acoustic to variations of the same with harmonies, different effects, EQ for pickups and 12 string.

Don't be afraid to experiment. And if you get flubby bottom end, turn down the bass and use the amp's EQ. Another thing I learned, the amp's master turned up too high can cause looseness as well. And if you are going to play live, do everything at live sound level and walk around the room to see if you are projecting too much bass.
 
Narzugon said:
I didn't even consider the Speaker page of the amp. Makes total sense.

As for the Master Volume, If I run PA modeling off in Global settings, should I run the MV at 10 (generally speaking)?

Also I think I may have found the problem. Try running FAS Wrecker with and without PA modeling. W/O PA modeling it sounds horrbile, can barely distort it and when it does it farts out in a big way. I'm assuming it's because of this taken from the Wiki:

"The secret to a Trainwreck is the output transformer. The impedance ratio is about twice that of other amps. I.e. typical 50W Marshall has a primary impedance of about 3200 ohms. A Trainwreck is about 6500 ohms. The causes the power tubes to clip much sooner."

I've found some amps sound better with PA modeling and some with it off. Which when you think about the Wiki quote, makes sense.
Click to expand...


Ok - I just spent about 5 min with the Wrecker Express model - not sure if this is the one you're trying. I literally am using nothing but the amp block - and I thank you, because I think I just found my new favorite amp. There has to be something going on with your settings or something. This is far from lifeless - wow. You always want to have power amp sims on when using a power amp and real cabs. This thing rocks !!! Turn the MV down - mine is at 6.5. You can compensate with the level.
 
Jimmytwotimes said:
Ok - I just spent about 5 min with the Wrecker Express model - not sure if this is the one you're trying. I literally am using nothing but the amp block - and I thank you, because I think I just found my new favorite amp. There has to be something going on with your settings or something. This is far from lifeless - wow. You always want to have power amp sims on when using a power amp and real cabs. This thing rocks !!! Turn the MV down - mine is at 6.5. You can compensate with the level.
Click to expand...

Haha yeah it's a wicked model. And it will sound thin and lifeless with PA modeling off. As I said earlier most likely due to the Wiki info I found.

So one thing I am still curious about, what is the Master Volume setting on the main Amp page doing when PA modeling is off?
 
Narzugon said:
Haha yeah it's a wicked model. And it will sound thin and lifeless with PA modeling off. As I said earlier most likely due to the Wiki info I found.

So one thing I am still curious about, what is the Master Volume setting on the main Amp page doing when PA modeling is off?
Click to expand...
What is PA modeling? Are you referring to amp modeling or speaker modeling?
 
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