Scene bypass???

[Moke]

Not necessary. When the preset loads, the default scene loads, and when that scene loads, the CS Per Scene thingie should load up your preferred CS states....

In my limited experience with this for a client, not if set to 'Last'?? I don't have time to test this right now. Getting up very early to work out of town for a couple of days. Good luck

The ability for blocks to be set to 'Ignore Scenes' would be handy though.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

In my limited experience with this for a client, not if set to 'Last'?? I don't have time to test this right now. Getting up very early to work out of town for a couple of days. Good luck

The ability for blocks to be set to 'Ignore Scenes' would be handy though.

If the preset being loaded is set to 'Last', then the CS stays off or on as it was before switching presets. If it is set to 'On', it switches on, and if it is set to 'Off', it switches off. This happens when the preset loads, since the scene loads with the preset. No wasted scene should be needed to set the CS up after selecting the preset.

Sorry if that wasn't clear, was typing while eating a taco Satan gave me....


Just checked it to verify. If set to Off or On in CS per Scene, a CS will be in that state when that preset is loaded. Used CS1 (Rotary Speed: Chorale/Vibrato) on one of my presets to test....

 

[666was999]

Compared to the way how the Helix solves this task, using CS's is a nightmare. It's way too complicated, right?

 

[My name is mud]

Maybe I don’t understand it all but
Here is what I do

In my fc12, I have assigned some scenes in the bottom line, and got the shortcuts for my favorite effects in the upper line . (They are bypassed in all the scenes)

Maybe scene 1 is set without a flanger for example , but if I want it , I push on my flanger shortcut and that’s it . It’s like having 3/4 scenes and some effects pedals in the same time in this config . Then I you need a shortcut for 10 pedals and 10 scenes is another story . 2 units? 2 fc12 ?

 

[Orvillain]

So clearly a lot of this hinges on the fact that I don't have a foot controller yet, so don't know what the heck I'm talking about really.

Originally I was thinking a preset-per-song, with 4 scenes to control the gainstaging side of things (amp channel, gate, compressor, EQ, drive pedals) and some specific kinds of ambient effects for my clean channel (pitch+delay+reverb), then some instant access switches to control the rest of the effects.

I did a tonelist of the songs to try and help, but maybe it's just confused things a bit more!

As you can tell, I definitely would need more than 8 scenes if I was to try and lock every change down to just a scene. But I think there's a cleverer way to set this up rather than just dumbing everything down to the 8 scenes available.

 

[JoKeR III]

Compared to the way how the Helix solves this task, using CS's is a nightmare. It's way too complicated, right?

I am not familiar with the Helix system so I can't compare the Control Switch ease of use. I tried Scene Controllers and Control Switches to do multiple tasks with one footswitch and for me, discovered CS's are the simplest way to accomplish what I need. They are neither complicated nor a nightmare to set up or use.

I have CS 1 setup in my FC Layout 3 as a 'global' boost (described earlier) and the others are available for use per-preset. They are as simple as knowing which parameters you want to control and assigning the CS to the modifier. They are incredibly versatile so there may be some thinking involved as to how to set the 'Min' and 'Max' in the modifier page depending upon what you want the switch to do. No need to overthink it though, just take one effect and parameter at a time until you have everything you want to control assigned.

 

[JoKeR III]

So clearly a lot of this hinges on the fact that I don't have a foot controller yet, so don't know what the heck I'm talking about really.

Originally I was thinking a preset-per-song, with 4 scenes to control the gainstaging side of things (amp channel, gate, compressor, EQ, drive pedals) and some specific kinds of ambient effects for my clean channel (pitch+delay+reverb), then some instant access switches to control the rest of the effects.

I did a tonelist of the songs to try and help, but maybe it's just confused things a bit more!

As you can tell, I definitely would need more than 8 scenes if I was to try and lock every change down to just a scene. But I think there's a cleverer way to set this up rather than just dumbing everything down to the 8 scenes available.

I use the preset-per-song approach and have whittled them down to 3 scenes; 1-clean/edge of breakup, 2-crunch, 3-ambient. I have a Drive block and CS boost giving me access to 6 different 'gain stages' with just 2 scenes. I have the FC-6 and use effects layouts for a pseudo pedalboard mode allowing quick access to even more sounds using different delays, reverbs and other effects within each scene.

One thing to keep in mind with modifiers is you can have 2 sources per modifier. e.g. you can have CS 2 as Source 1 and CS 3 as Source 2 and set them for different levels of Drive in the Amp block. Set the 'Min' and 'Max' to the lowest and highest settings you need. Adjust Source 1 to 50% and Source 2 to 100% and you now have 3 gain stages with 2 footswitches available in any scene- both switches off will use the Min value for the amount of Drive.

Control Switches and Per-Preset switches are the two most powerful and versatile features in my workflow. There's really no scenario I cannot find a solution to using these features.

 

[Orvillain]

Okay okay ... I'm starting to get it. This is really powerful.... setting control switches up to bypass blocks in tandem with setting them to 'last' mode means that switching scenes won't affect their bypass state - ie; it remains as it is currently set.

And in tandem with that.... you can set it to on or off for specific scenes... so if I want a safe high-gain scene that turns off all of my effects... long as those effects are linked to control switches... I should be good.

Now.... is 6 control switches enough for me..... potentially not... will have to see.....

Trying to decide if I need the FC12 or if I can get by with the FC6...

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

Okay okay ... I'm starting to get it. This is really powerful.... setting control switches up to bypass blocks in tandem with setting them to 'last' mode means that switching scenes won't affect their bypass state - ie; it remains as it is currently set.

And in tandem with that.... you can set it to on or off for specific scenes... so if I want a safe high-gain scene that turns off all of my effects... long as those effects are linked to control switches... I should be good.

Yup. You're on the path.

Now.... is 6 control switches enough for me..... potentially not... will have to see.....

This was an occasional friction point in my setup.

Getting an FM9 and linking it and the FX3 via MIDI gave me 6 more CS in each. I finally have more than I need - for any crazy preset I want to build....

Trying to decide if I need the FC12 or if I can get by with the FC6...

I started with the 12, switched to two 6es, and have arrived at a 6 and a 9....

 

[Orvillain]

I think first thing I need to do is do one preset, starting with the amps and assorted gain stages. Figure out how they break down scene-wise. Then add my "I always use these delays and reverbs for my ambience" effects, and allocate them to control switches. Finally, then I should add any song specific things like tremolo (which I only use in one song) and pitch effects (which I only use in one song too!!) and put them either into the scenes as required, or onto the left over control switches.

I've just realised I can use the scene controllers to sweep the pitch control of my pitch whammy block, and I can do the same with tremolo speed, so that very literally just got rid of one of two expression pedals!

 

[Admin M@]

While control switches provide a "creative" way to do scene independent blocks, it's really not what they were intended for, which is why they seem like an overly-complex way to solve that problem. I think Moke's terminology sums up the request: a switch in the block to IGNORE SCENES would do it. This is a known request, as some others have pointed out.

 

[Dave Merrill]

While control switches provide a "creative" way to do scene independent blocks, it's really not what they were intended for, which is why they seem like an overly-complex way to solve that problem. I think Moke's terminology sums up the request: a switch in the block to IGNORE SCENES would do it. This is a known request, as some others have pointed out.

@Admin M@, can you talk about some of the scenarios that control switches WERE designed for? What are some examples of their originally intended uses?

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

I've just realised I can use the scene controllers to sweep the pitch control of my pitch whammy block, and I can do the same with tremolo speed, so that very literally just got rid of one of two expression pedals!

Scene controllers provide a way of setting a static controller value for each scene. They can't sweep a value, but can preset one. Great for things like setting a different trem speed per scene, or drive level changes without swapping channels in the amp block or drive block, or adjusting reverb level lower/higher on some scenes.

 

[Orvillain]

Scene controllers provide a way of setting a static controller value for each scene. They can't sweep a value, but can preset one. Great for things like setting a different trem speed per scene, or drive level changes without swapping channels in the amp block or drive block, or adjusting reverb level lower/higher on some scenes.

I'm setting scene controller 1 to 0% in scene 1, and 100% in scene 2. Then I set the attack and release of whatever I'm assigning it to, to be quite high (8000ms in each case here) and that 'effectively' sweeps the control. It's pretty nifty!!

 

[Orvillain]

While control switches provide a "creative" way to do scene independent blocks, it's really not what they were intended for, which is why they seem like an overly-complex way to solve that problem. I think Moke's terminology sums up the request: a switch in the block to IGNORE SCENES would do it. This is a known request, as some others have pointed out.

Yes you're absolutely right. You can do it in a creative way using the control switches, but a dedicated "excuse this block's bypass state from any scene switches" would be even niftier - in fact... much how you can set a state for the control switches on a per-scene basis, it would be totes amazebowls to do the same for block bypass states - on, off, or ignore.

A boy can drrreeeaaaaammmmm

 

[biskitboy]

While control switches provide a "creative" way to do scene independent blocks, it's really not what they were intended for, which is why they seem like an overly-complex way to solve that problem. I think Moke's terminology sums up the request: a switch in the block to IGNORE SCENES would do it. This is a known request, as some others have pointed out.

If the Ignore Scene changes in the block was on a per-scene basis, this would be much better than we have now. If it's just a flat flag that disables the block across all scene changes, then it seems like a marginal improvement over the the CS workaround. We simply need a way to toggle groups of blocks independently of each other. Usual case is Dry blocks, vs Wet blocks, etc. This request by @Dave Merrill seemed like it tackled most of this.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/channel-groups-and-bypass-groups.173736/

I'd take any real advancement to this problem. As it stands today, I have all my CS switches in use trying to juggle this workflow problem. Here's hoping for 18.x.