Routing question

S

staticdeathnoise

Member
Hi Forum

I am a new AXE FX II owner (only bought one yesterday) and am trying to draw a mental diagram of my wiring and not fully understanding the internal routing options of the system I am having a bit of difficulty working out if this is a possible routing option or not. I'll try to explain as clearly as possible what I am trying to do.

I am going to use a real amp and cabinet with the Axe FX and put the entire AXE FX within the amp's FX loop using it primarily as an FX processor (i.e. after the preamp) using input 1 and output 1. I then want to use the AXE FX's input and output 2 as an "fx loop" and place my computer soundcard within the signal path so that I can use other VSTs as FX live. I know I can do this by creating FX loop blocks in my presets. What I want to know is when I do this can I still use the XLR outputs of output 2 to send a separate signal with power amp and cab sims turned on into FOH or my DAW for recording while the power amp and cab sims are switched off on the TRS (or is it TS?) outputs of output 2?

Does that make sense? Essentially I want to know if the XLR outputs and TRS (or TS) outputs of the second output are independent from each other in terms of what gets routed through them.
 
The XLR outputs are for Output 1, not Output 2. They output the same signal as the 1/4" Output 1 jacks, no way to change this.

Do you only need a mono send to the soundcard, and a mono return to your amp? If so, there's still a way to accomplish what you want.
 
Bakerman said:
The XLR outputs are for Output 1, not Output 2. They output the same signal as the 1/4" Output 1 jacks, no way to change this.

Do you only need a mono send to the soundcard, and a mono return to your amp? If so, there's still a way to accomplish what you want.
Click to expand...

Ah yes of course! I totally forgot about the left/right routing possibilities! (still trying to get my head around all this). So basically the left and right signal chains can be completely independent from each other right? So one side can have no cabs/power amp sims and one side can have them on right?

So I can go:


guitar> amp input> amp fx snd> Axe input 1 (left)> axe output 2 (left)> sound card input> sound card output> Axe input 2 (left)>
Axe output 1 (left)> Amp fx rtrn
Axe output 1 (right)> DAW or FOH

I was actually wanting to send a stereo signal to my DAW but I guess I don't have to do that (Would have been cool to use stereo FX but really I don't think I will use them all that much anyway)

The only other question is, using the above wiring, can I use the TS connection for the left output and the XLR connection for the right output or is there some rule about only being able to use the right output of either pair only if the left one is also engaged (I doubt this is the case but just making sure).
 
Using the feedback send & return blocks you can have Out 2R feed the amp return, which leaves Out 1 L/R free for stereo to DAW.

Any combination of Output 1 jacks can be used.
 
Bakerman said:
Using the feedback send & return blocks you can have Out 2R feed the amp return, which leaves Out 1 L/R free for stereo to DAW.

Any combination of Output 1 jacks can be used.
Click to expand...

But output 2 was going to be used to send a signal into my soundcard for processing before it was returned to the Axe FX and into the amp's return loop.
 
If you only need a mono send (Out 2L) to soundcard, Out 2R can be used for something else like the amp's return signal.
 
There's an excellent signal flow diagram in the last few pages of the Axe-FX III manual. Lots of great info there. Sorry - out and about right now or I'd give the page #.
 
Bakerman said:
If you only need a mono send (Out 2L) to soundcard, Out 2R can be used for something else like the amp's return signal.
Click to expand...

I am having trouble understanding this...

I need to send the signal back from the sound card to the AXE before it goes to my amp's FX loop return, I don't see how I can do that with the wiring you are suggesting....
 
The feedback send & return will transmit signal from one place on the grid to another. If you route like this (ignore the shunts in row 4 and filter block; this was an example for another thread) you can set row 1 & 2 balance to opposite sides in the FX Loop. Row 2 would feed the soundcard, row 1 would go to amp return.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28651/axefx/alt_4cm.jpg

Since the Out 2 level knob affects both channels, you might want to leave it at one position such as maximum, then control levels with the FXL row levels.
 
Bakerman said:
The feedback send & return will transmit signal from one place on the grid to another. If you route like this (ignore the shunts in row 4 and filter block; this was an example for another thread) you can set row 1 & 2 balance to opposite sides in the FX Loop. Row 2 would feed the soundcard, row 1 would go to amp return.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28651/axefx/alt_4cm.jpg

Since the Out 2 level knob affects both channels, you might want to leave it at one position such as maximum, then control levels with the FXL row levels.
Click to expand...

Ok so let me see if I understand this correctly, I can actually route the "return" inside Axe Edit in a way to feed the first row and set the first row to the right hand side of output 2 and out to my amp's FX return, this way I get the signal which has gone from the second row into the Left side of output 2 and into my soundcard back into row one AFTER it gets processed by VSTs in my DAW.... ay I got a headache just writing that... make sense?
 
Assuming row 1 is panned hard right and row 2 is panned hard left in the FXL block, this is what you get:

Output 1 is silent.
Output 2L has all effect blocks between the grid input and FXL block in second row. Connect this to your computer soundcard.
Output 2R has all effect blocks between the grid input and the Send block, including what is connected between Out 2L and In 2. Connect this with your Monitors.

If you want output 1 to have the DAW signal, you will have to split your signal before the Send block to a different row and then add the cab block after it and connect it to the grid output.

You can now connect Output 1 L and R to your DAW.



However, are you sure you want to incorporate a computer soundcard in your rig?
Remember that the latency introduced by each D/A and A/D conversion will add up:

Axe input 1 > Axe Output 2L > Soundcard input > Soundcard output > Axe Input 2 > Axe Output 2R.

The Axe has super-low latency converters, yes, but since you are basicly doing 6 D/A A/D conversions in your signal chain, it will definitely add a noticable latency to your grid. Add the extreme latency of stock computer soundcards and you will easily end up with a 100ms delay.
 
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Zwiebelchen said:
Assuming row 1 is panned hard right and row 2 is panned hard left in the FXL block, this is what you get:

Output 1 is silent.
Output 2L has all effect blocks between the grid input and FXL block in second row. Connect this to your computer soundcard.
Output 2R has all effect blocks between the grid input and the Send block, including what is connected between Out 2L and In 2. Connect this with your Monitors.

If you want output 1 to have the DAW signal, you will have to split your signal before the Send block to a different row and then add the cab block after it and connect it to the grid output.

You can now connect Output 1 L and R to your DAW.



However, are you sure you want to incorporate a computer soundcard in your rig?
Remember that the latency introduced by each D/A and A/D conversion will add up:

Axe input 1 > Axe Output 2L > Soundcard input > Soundcard output > Axe Input 2 > Axe Output 2R.

The Axe has super-low latency converters, yes, but since you are basicly doing 6 D/A A/D conversions in your signal chain, it will definitely add a noticable latency to your grid. Add the extreme latency of stock computer soundcards and you will easily end up with a 100ms delay.
Click to expand...

Ok think I kind of understand, it hard knowing for sure because I dont have my amp with me right now but I will go over this thread again once I get it back from the tech.

As for latency I am sure it'll be fine, I have used a similar setup before with other FX processors and utilising some switchable loops and the latency has been tolerable. Especially considering the sort of audio mangling that I have in mind I think I will get away with a bit of extra latency. Also my DAW soundcard is pretty low latency too and also has high quality AD/DA converters.
 
Just saying, because even if a latency is low (like 5ms, which most humans will not notice), having 6 consecutive conversions increases the latency to a noticable 30ms.
 
Zwiebelchen said:
Just saying, because even if a latency is low (like 5ms, which most humans will not notice), having 6 consecutive conversions increases the latency to a noticable 30ms.
Click to expand...

The Axe-FX will only add about 2.5 ms total in this scenario.

If the external effects you want to use are things like delay/reverb/pitch where you're adding the effect to an unaltered dry sound, you could also keep the dry path within the Axe, routed around the FXL with a shunt. Then you're not adding the soundcard latency to it.
 
Ok I just opened the Axe Edit trying to get my head around these instructions and I can't work out how to pan the tows hard left and right. Am I missing something? It should be something obvious :-/
 
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