Room Correction Software

boyce89976

boyce89976

Experienced
Has anyone ever tried running room correction software instead of/in compliment to physical acoustic treatment?

I have an older AVR (Anthem) that has their ARC room correction built in. I was thinking about trying the following signal flow:
Axe FX III --> Anthem via XLR's --> ARC Room Correction --> Studio speakers

I need to double check, but I believe the Anthem can apply ARC to the XLR analog inputs. I realize I'd be doing at least one extra DA/AD step, but I suspect it would be worth it to fix low frequency acoustic issues.
 
It can help fix smaller issues in an already treated room, but there really is no substitute for acoustic treatment. I'm not an expert on this topic but from my reading there are 3 main problems using it in an untreated room:
1) the software can only work from the information it receives from the microphone which is located in a certain place in the room (ideally where your head is when seated at the desk), so even if the software could perfectly fix modes and nulls, as soon as you move even a few inches from where the microphone was in a typical square/cube domestic room, you'll have the same or worse acoustic problems.
2) EQ can't fix the extended decay of notes caused by room modes, especially on low notes which really can only be reduced with bass traps.
3) nulls in a room can be very large and trying to correct them with EQ by boosting a low end frequency by +20dB or whatever is obviously problematic and could even damage your speakers because remember even before EQ they're already producing that frequency at the level for which they were designed.

Acoustic panels aren't expensive to build, I based my build on this video and they came out to about $30 apiece for 2'x4'x4" deep panels, which is pennies compared to commercially available panels. You can hang them diagonally in the corners for bass trapping. I stacked them vertically in each corner so they're almost floor-to-ceiling in the corners. Dedicated bass traps will perform better but I don't have enough publishing checks coming in to justify putting that kind of money into my home studio for acoustic treatment. :tongueclosed:

The room sounds pretty good with the panels we built. It really doesn't take a ton to help reduce the major problems in a room, and if you have too many it will sound "dead" because there's very few reflections happening.

I'm sure you could find some used panels in Nashville.
 
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strabes said:
It can help fix smaller issues in an already treated room, but there really is no substitute for acoustic treatment. I'm not an expert on this topic but from my reading the main problem is that the software can only work from the information it receives from the microphone which is located in a certain place in the room (ideally where your head is when seated at the desk), so even if the software could perfectly fix modes and nulls, as soon as you move even a few inches from where the microphone was in a typical square/cube domestic room, you'll have the same or worse acoustic problems. Second, EQ can't fix the extended decay of notes caused by room modes, especially on low notes which really can only be reduced with bass traps. Also nulls in a room can be very large and trying to correct them with EQ by boosting a low end frequency by +20dB or whatever is obviously problematic and could even damage your speakers because remember even before EQ they're already producing that frequency at the level for which they were designed.

Acoustic panels aren't expensive to build, I based my build on this video and they came out to about $30 apiece for 2'x4'x4" deep panels, which is pennies compared to commercially available panels. You can hang them diagonally in the corners for bass trapping. I stacked them vertically in each corner so they're almost floor-to-ceiling in the corners. Dedicated bass traps will perform better but I don't have enough publishing checks coming in to justify putting that kind of money into my home studio for acoustic treatment. :tongueclosed: The room sounds pretty good with the panels we built. It really doesn't take a ton to help reduce the major problems in a room, and if you have too many it will sound "dead" because there's very few reflections happening.

I'm sure you could find some used panels in Nashville.
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Great points, Alex! I plan on making some panels and specifically some bass traps, but was thinking about some room correction as an add-on to treatment, and most likely as a first step since it's so much easier to implement, haha!
 
Can never spend enough effort / money / time on room treatment imho
Software correction is awesome, I use Sonarworks SoundID and it is pretty damn nice for headphone monitoring too. Though I recommend you go hard at all of it, starting with the most significant problems you have (probably low frequencies, get good traps).
 
Software room correction only really works if you always monitor from the same position in the room, i.e. your monitors are on your desk an your chair is always in the same spot. It also works pertty well via headphones which always sit on your melon the same. With speakers, as soon as you move in the room, the correction will no longer be valid.

Here's a pretty cool room mode calculator that can play test tones for the various modes and you can move around the room and hear the tone get louder and quieter as you move.

https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc
 
mr_fender said:
Software room correction only really works if you always monitor from the same position in the room, i.e. your monitors are on your desk an your chair is always in the same spot. It also works pertty well via headphones which always sit on your melon the same. With speakers, as soon as you move in the room, the correction will no longer be valid.
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True, but near field monitors are generally intended to be used from a single listening position anyway. Even room treatment often assumes a single listening position.
 
neither sonarworks room correction which i used for 3 years, nor neumann monitor’s dsp room correction i use now take a single spot measurement.

Sweetspot tolerance is wider than you think. And your ear compensate also quite some….otherwise you would even not move/turn your head an inch even in the best studio on world!

Room correction software are one of the best investment even for some of the good/pro grade studios out there, yet for home studios!!!

Though yes, for decay times it can’t do much and you still need acoustic treatment.
 
I’m using both acoustic absorption and EQ correction via Peace APO via REW. Music sounds great, but the problem I have is I use an FM9 for audio output, so my guitar doesn’t have the EQ correction.
 
But in response to the OP, I agree with others that you cannot fix low end (especially) issues with EQ correction alone. That said, anything is better than nothing, so go for what you do first. Just don’t try to fix things below 150hz or so too much.
 
I used to use ERGO until it t was no longer supported by windows. I tried REW and i don't care for it. I use ARC and I like it. Takes a little tweaking but better than no room correction.
 
discondition said:
Can never spend enough effort / money / time on room treatment imho
Software correction is awesome, I use Sonarworks SoundID and it is pretty damn nice for headphone monitoring too. Though I recommend you go hard at all of it, starting with the most significant problems you have (probably low frequencies, get good traps).
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Agreed, this would be part of the fix. I also plan on building some good bass traps/acoustic panels.
mr_fender said:
Software room correction only really works if you always monitor from the same position in the room, i.e. your monitors are on your desk an your chair is always in the same spot. It also works pertty well via headphones which always sit on your melon the same. With speakers, as soon as you move in the room, the correction will no longer be valid.

Here's a pretty cool room mode calculator that can play test tones for the various modes and you can move around the room and hear the tone get louder and quieter as you move.

https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc
Click to expand...
I'm very familiar with room correction via AV gear (I've use DIRAC, Anthem's ARC and Audessey). As @unFILTERed said, none of them capture a single listening point, and all of them recommend taking at least 3 measurements (main listening point, and one in front and one behind the main listening point). Most recommend 6 measurements surrounding the main listening position. The sweet spot in my home theater, which doubles as a two-channel system is actually pretty big.
GlennO said:
True, but near field monitors are generally intended to be used from a single listening position anyway. Even room treatment often assumes a single listening position.
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Correct! These will be used mainly for monitoring the Axe III, and tracking guitars, from the same listening position.
unFILTERed said:
neither sonarworks room correction which i used for 3 years, nor neumann monitor’s dsp room correction i use now take a single spot measurement.

Sweetspot tolerance is wider than you think. And your ear compensate also quite some….otherwise you would even not move/turn your head an inch even in the best studio on world!

Room correction software are one of the best investment even for some of the good/pro grade studios out there, yet for home studios!!!

Though yes, for decay times it can’t do much and you still need acoustic treatment.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I was thinking when I asked the question! My AV system sounds phenomenal (it's in the same room as my "music studio").

My issue is a buildup of bass frequencies (below 400hz, mainly 100hz - 400hz), something I'd need 12" thick bass traps to do an adequate correction job, so acoustic panels alone will not solve the problem (I think the max depth I could get away with is 6" - so I'm thinking 4" traps mounted 2" off the walls - I've seen some evidence that arrangement is as good as 6" deep traps).
 
Thanks everyone, good to know I'm not a lunatic! :D

I'm going to try using my old Anthem Pre/Pro (XLR in's and out's) and run their ARC room correction for my studio monitors and will report back.
 
I've found the Sonarworks Reference ID software deeply disappointing. It just has so many issues where it loses correction, crashes or sometimes even distorts sound. I fought enough with it and the developer could make no real progress with it. Also bad track record for implementing even simple user requests like hotkeys for switching presets. It's good when it works, but because it doesn't work a lot of the time I find it really hard to recommend.

For headphones you can get close enough results using SoundSource (MacOS) or Peace GUI + EqualizerAPO on Windows with AutoEQ correction curves. Both apps can load the AutoEQ corrections directly.
 
Got to say, having invested heavily in building a couple of adjoining rooms, and an airlock in between them from scratch, all of it very well treated acoustically...

Software was able to do quite a bit in my previous home studio, but the sound waves bouncing around the room are physical and don't really care about software. Making good sounding spaces for acoustics is a cruel mistress, but if you can achieve something tolerable or good with acoustic treatment, it makes life so much simpler. I was a slave to amroc and rew throughout the design and build of my studio, and had to mess around a lot with moving the acoustic treatment as the build was being finished.

But the final result for one of the rooms is just amazing. Listening to music I have loved for a lifetime is a revelation, as I hear all the frequencies with stereo separation for the first time ever. The other room is somewhere between tolerable and good, with a couple of predicted resonances that are easy enough to dial out in EQ.

A good sounding space is just what it says on the tin. Software can compensate to an extent, but when you come to recording anything like a voice, or an acoustic instrument, you'll come back to wishing you had a good sounding physical space. In order of priority, concentrate on acoustic treatment way ahead of fooling yourself into thinking it sounds better than it does with software.

My £0.02, hope it helps!

Liam
 
Room correction softwares are great and can really make the difference in most cases, but I think those found on the AVRs usually have quite a bit of latency so it's probably not feasible to play thru them. Or at least it's not with my Denon with Audissey, don't know about others.
So for playing and mixing I use sonarworks with monitors in a partially treated room and it works great. But for some reason (which might be a larger room, the automatic Fletcher-Munson compensation or the extended bass range of the system) my AVR with Audissey just sounds better, it has way more depth and lets me perceive individual instruments in a mix more easily.
That's why I just bought a quite powerful laptop, so that I can do some mixing thru the denon in my living room.
 
I've recently tried some IK Multimedia iLoud Precision 6 in my untreated home studio.

The built in ARC 3 calibration system solved A LOT of my problems having it at the last stage of the audio chain and not running a correction software on my PC.
 
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