Replicate to eliminate tone/volume knobs on guitar?

fuzzyoctaves

fuzzyoctaves

Inspired
I am building a custom guitar and while struggling with where to put the knobs because standard positioning is in my way when playing heavy rhythms, I had a thought that I could use input trim and input eq to eliminate the volume and tone pots. I am overseas from my Axe and can't experiment with it right now, but I am wondering if anyone has done this or has thoughts on it. I feel like I am missing something important but my sleep deprived brain isn't catching it.
 
Hi.

I use trim (amp block) to get some single coil sound with my humbucker, especially with position 2 and 4 of the pickups selector key.

About knob positions, you can see the JP6 model.
Great place for knobs and key.
 
fuzzyoctaves said:
I am building a custom guitar and while struggling with where to put the knobs because standard positioning is in my way when playing heavy rhythms, I had a thought that I could use input trim and input eq to eliminate the volume and tone pots. I am overseas from my Axe and can't experiment with it right now, but I am wondering if anyone has done this or has thoughts on it. I feel like I am missing something important but my sleep deprived brain isn't catching it.
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This doesn't answer your Axe-FX question, but might help with knob placement:

Previously, to determine best knob placement on a custom guitar ...

I removed all the knobs and pots on another guitar, then used tape like in the pics to temporarily attach the knobs to the guitar. Then, I could easily move the knobs around until I found the right spots.

On a strat-style with a pickguard, I've just removed the pot hardware (nut and washer) and pushed the pots down a bit so they wouldn't get in the way of placing the temp knobs as above.

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fuzzyoctaves said:
I am building a custom guitar and while struggling with where to put the knobs because standard positioning is in my way when playing heavy rhythms, I had a thought that I could use input trim and input eq to eliminate the volume and tone pots. I am overseas from my Axe and can't experiment with it right now, but I am wondering if anyone has done this or has thoughts on it. I feel like I am missing something important but my sleep deprived brain isn't catching it.
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It rather depends on what you are actually trying to achieve. If you have no tone or volume controls on the guitar, you can simply dial in the rest of the rig for the sound you want, recognising that you will have no method of changing the volume and tone other than picking dynamics.
If you want to transfer the function of the guitar controls to the Axe, you will need other devices such as expression pedals as modifiers for volume and EQ blocks within the Axe.
If using expression pedals is acceptable to you as an alternative to knobs on the guitar, then do that. If not, you have a choice between finding a good position for the knobs on the guitar, or doing without.
 
The input Trim at the amp block is essentially the same thing as reducing the volume knob on the guitar, reducing level before it hits the first tube stage. But using the Global Input Gain control gives you a setting that persists across presets/scenes and gives you the most "accurate" signal chain positioning, as it will come before any compressors, drives, or other input-sensitive blocks you have before your amp block.

There is a dynamic in traditionally-wired volume knobs that causes some high end to roll off as the volume is rolled down. To create a 100% simulation you'll need to introduce a lot of complexity.... mapping a subtle LPF and a volume pad onto a single controller.

To simulate a tone knob, use a Low-pass filter from the Filter block. The Frequency control will work like your tone knob- as you turn it down (lowering the cutoff frequency) you'll trim progressively more highs. There's no formula for a perfect simulation- the start/stop frequencies and Q for a tone knob are highly dependent on the capacitor and pot values, pickup characteristics, and even the cable running out of the guitar; so you'll have to experiment. Put the filter block as early in the chain as possible for more realism.

Input trim, Filter freq, and Global Input Gain can all be mapped to the performance page for front-panel control.

One last note- even when they're at 10, traditional volume & tone controls impose some load on the pickups, so a guitar without these controls (pickups wired directly to the output jack) will have a brighter and hotter sound than the same guitar with traditional controls.
 
Admin M@ said:
I'd build a 2-knob outboard passive volume/tone control in a little project box.
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I've actually got a small box with two pots hooked up to my FC12, but you are talking about one that the guitar plugs direct into? Would that mess with the "special sauce" Axe input?

On a related note, I wish that FA sold a standalone box with a bunch (of expression/switch inputs. I have 4 foot expression controllers, the previously mentioned two knob expression controller, and another box with two latching and 2 non-latching switches filling all the spots on my FC12. It would be so awesome to have 10 extra knobs in a 1u rack space.
 
An electric guitar has a “resonant peak” in the treble based on the pickups and cable. Volume and tone controls tame that a little, even if all the way up, so removing those would make for a very strong resonant peak, like a no-load tone pot but worse because there is also no volume pot. You can mitigate that by adding a resistor in series with a capacitor to ground in place of the tone control. This would function like a tone control in a fixed position.
 
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fuzzyoctaves said:
I am building a custom guitar and while struggling with where to put the knobs because standard positioning is in my way when playing heavy rhythms, I had a thought that I could use input trim and input eq to eliminate the volume and tone pots. I am overseas from my Axe and can't experiment with it right now, but I am wondering if anyone has done this or has thoughts on it. I feel like I am missing something important but my sleep deprived brain isn't catching it.
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Is the problem that you bump the knobs while playing, causing them to turn? If so, rubber grommets under the pots will prevent that.
 
Tannhauser said:
No offence intended, but do you think you might have a technique problem?

Would love to see a video clip.
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Given the standards of guitar knob positioning on Fenders, I am quite sure it is technique related, but old dogs new tricks, blaa blaa. When I am playing fast rhythm my three non picking fingers are extended mostly straight out and they hit the damn blade switch when it is in the neck position. On some guitars with taller knobs or when the volume is in the strat position, my hand hits those as well. My old PRS CE24 had a short knob that was a bit recessed so it wasn't an issue.

It is one of the reasons why I only play custom guitars (the other being that most guitars are way too heavy). Both of my Warmoths have the center of the volume knob just behind the saddles (which wasn't the best decision on the one with a Strat trem because the trem bar gets in the way a bit).

I'm sure I'll use a three knob setup on this guitar similar to my CE24 and I'll just move the volume knob down like on the JP6. The question of eliminating them altigether was more of an "academic" one.
 
A lot of folks dislike the volume knob placement on a Strat. It's very close to the strings. Great for Jeff Beck style pinky volume swells, but it can sometimes get right in the way. Some folks rewire for a single master tone knob and move the volume knob to the position of the middle knob instead. The switch position and angle on Strats isn't always the best either. When it's in the #5 position (neck pup), it can be easy to accidentally hit while strumming away for some folks and knock down into the #4 position accidentally.
 
mr_fender said:
A lot of folks dislike the volume knob placement on a Strat. It's very close to the strings. Great for Jeff Beck style pinky volume swells, but it can sometimes get right in the way. Some folks rewire for a single master tone knob and move the volume knob to the position of the middle knob instead. The switch position and angle on Strats isn't always the best either. When it's in the #5 position (neck pup), it can be easy to accidentally hit while strumming away for some folks and knock down into the #4 position accidentally.
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Thanks for that! Helps me not feel like so much of a dufus :)

That issue with the blade switch has really turned me off them in favor of a rotary, but maybe a better solution is to keep the blade and just move it back. hmmm.
 
fuzzyoctaves said:
Given the standards of guitar knob positioning on Fenders, I am quite sure it is technique related, but old dogs new tricks, blaa blaa. When I am playing fast rhythm my three non picking fingers are extended mostly straight out and they hit the damn blade switch when it is in the neck position. On some guitars with taller knobs or when the volume is in the strat position, my hand hits those as well. My old PRS CE24 had a short knob that was a bit recessed so it wasn't an issue.

It is one of the reasons why I only play custom guitars (the other being that most guitars are way too heavy). Both of my Warmoths have the center of the volume knob just behind the saddles (which wasn't the best decision on the one with a Strat trem because the trem bar gets in the way a bit).

I'm sure I'll use a three knob setup on this guitar similar to my CE24 and I'll just move the volume knob down like on the JP6. The question of eliminating them altigether was more of an "academic" one.
Click to expand...

fuzzyoctaves said:
Thanks for that! Helps me not feel like so much of a dufus :)
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Sorry mate, I didn't mean to make you feel bad. I can relate too, when I got a strat, like many others I also found the volume position a bit difficult to feel positive about.

Speaking as someone who has done extensive and repeated work on right hand technique (and the struggle still goes on...) I always think it's worth trying to improve technique where possible and reasonable. My right hand technique has been the worst part of my playing forever, but it's a lot better than it used to be and I feel like I'm getting close to another breakthrough. I've been playing over 20 years so absolutely think new tricks can be taught and learnt! Specifically, I too have had to deal with my 2-4 fingers not being in the right place in the past 😊

I hope that comes across as encouraging, the spirit with which it's intended, whether you decide to try some other things or not, best of luck with your playing 😊
 
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