Recommend a Poweramp for (2) 4x12s? (Solid State Noob here)

rsf1977

rsf1977

Fractal Fanatic
I'm considering a solid state power amp to power (2) 4x12 cabs to go with my Ultra. So i need some advice on how much power i need for each and what is a good unit that would accomplish this, I would pay a little more if it meant better sound. Also, I play loud high gain de-tuned metal if that has any importance on which to choose? The cabs I have are currently:

Mesa Standard 4x12 (Celestian 30s - 8ohms)
Voodoo Amps 4x12 (X-pattern, Celestian 30s & 75s - 16ohms)

I also have a Marshall 1960A Cab (Celestian 75s - 16ohms) that i'm not currently considering using, yet anyway lol
 
I use a SLA-2 and it works fine with 2 Mesa Boogie recto 4-12's very transparent and OK (but not mind blowing power).
Ive also used a Velocity 300 and it was good but not as good sounding as the SLA-2

The SLA-1 is not enough juice IMO nor is the Velocity 100

If you really want to blow the doors off your band mates consider something like the or Carvin DCM1000


With SS power amps is is better to have too much power amp and throttle it back a little to protect your speakers then not enough and risk it clipping which is opposite of tube amps where most same people prefer it the other way around (tubes clipping sound sweet to many ears ss not so much)
 
I use a QSC GX5 with 500 watts to each channel powering a Flextone 4x12 and a Marshall 1960 4x12... I set my Axe-fx output to around 3 o'clock and I set the power amp settings to around 11 o'clock on each channel and it's freaking loud!!!!!! Funny thing is that when we play live I have to turn down the power amp settings to around 9-10 o'clock because they say I'm too loud... well, I say their too old. :D

And at $400 bones brand new you can't go wrong...
 
Funny you should ask! I'm selling a Rocktron Velocity 250 solid state poweramp housed in a skb style, 2 rackspace Gator case. I've used it to power 2 ADA 2x12's but I've found that it's too much power for me. The fact that I'm not in a band (or want to be) and I live in a small house with a small child Ive gone nearfield FRFR (Dynaudio BM5a's) to power my Axe-Fx. I've used several different Rocktron products in the past and I've always been very pleased with them. The Velocity 250 is MUCH better then the newer Rocktron poweramps that are made in China. It's USA made and I chose the 250 over the 300 because it has both Reactance and Definition controls for each channel to tweak your sound to the room your playing in so you don't have to change your patches. It's DEAD quite because it doen't have a fan (BIG heat sink instead). The 250 is also bridgable. You can get further info on the Rocktron site under the discontinued product manuals page. I'm asking $325 + shipping.
 
IIIMK said:
I use a SLA-2 and it works fine with 2 Mesa Boogie recto 4-12's very transparent and OK (but not mind blowing power).
Ive also used a Velocity 300 and it was good but not as good sounding as the SLA-2

The SLA-1 is not enough juice IMO nor is the Velocity 100

If you really want to blow the doors off your band mates consider something like the or Carvin DCM1000


With SS power amps is is better to have too much power amp and throttle it back a little to protect your speakers then not enough and risk it clipping which is opposite of tube amps where most same people prefer it the other way around (tubes clipping sound sweet to many ears ss not so much)
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i really liked that the SLA-2 was one rack unit i was just a little afraid it wouldn't have enough power I was told for solidstate you need a lot more watts to get good performance
 
rsf1977 said:
IIIMK said:
I use a SLA-2 and it works fine with 2 Mesa Boogie recto 4-12's very transparent and OK (but not mind blowing power).
Ive also used a Velocity 300 and it was good but not as good sounding as the SLA-2

The SLA-1 is not enough juice IMO nor is the Velocity 100

If you really want to blow the doors off your band mates consider something like the or Carvin DCM1000


With SS power amps is is better to have too much power amp and throttle it back a little to protect your speakers then not enough and risk it clipping which is opposite of tube amps where most same people prefer it the other way around (tubes clipping sound sweet to many ears ss not so much)
Click to expand...

i really liked that the SLA-2 was one rack unit i was just a little afraid it wouldn't have enough power I was told for solidstate you need a lot more watts to get good performance
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I don't have any problems keeping up with a heavy drummer, zzounds 30-Day 100% Satisfaction Guarantee if the SLA2 is not enough and rack space and weight is not an issue, send it back and step to a 2 rack space amp. You will have a lot of chioces once you start looking their. If you play that loud then I would look for a 1000 watts +.
 
If you want enough punch and power to slam two 4x12's at the same time, go for too much power rather than too little.
You really need much more power if you go SS versus a tube amp. For example, I use a mesa 50/50 power amp in my main rack with a triaxis, I can barely turn the thing past 2 or 3 even outdoors. It blows doors. I use a DCM150 for my axe-fx, and I have to run it wide open even in my studio. Despite nominally more power, I get much less out of it and have little headroom on clean sounds (dirty are actually OK). I drive either a stereo 4x12 or two mesa 1x12 3/4 back cabs with the DCM150. I send a direct feed to the mains and my stage volume is very controlled because I want the PA to do the work, and I don't want to mess with the mix out front by way of my amp being too loud. So the DCM150 is fine for me, but if you are playing any kind of heavy music and you want to push two 4x12 cabs you will need much more horsepower.

One thing that becomes apparent using the DCM150 is that the balance between my patches can be finicky thru the mains versus my cab. Since I'm running the DCM150 pretty much full-bore, there's not much headroom on clean sounds, which are much more dynamic than dirty sounds. So if I even out my patches thru my rig, sometimes thru the mains the clean sounds step all over the high-gain sounds because suddenly there's a few thousand watts of headroom. So there's a learning curve, but the take-home message is have enough headroom. You don't want to be running that close to the bone, get some more power.

I didn't know about the ART unit. I definitely wanted to go one rackspace because I'm trying to stay compact, and the DCM150 is working for me, but I must admit I'm tempted to sell it and try the ART. Just a bit more wattage would probably make me pretty happy! (Any takers on a 2 month old DCM150?? :lol: ).
 
First. if you're planning to drive both of your cabs with a single (2-ch) power amp, then you might consider rewiring one of your cabs to match the impedance of the other. Either have both cabs at 16 ohms, or both cabs at 8 ohms - this will help level the playing field and prevent one cab from being markedly louder than the other.

Second, consider using the "5 times the power" rule, for matching SS amps to tube amps. If you normally drive both cabs with a single 100W tube head, you'll want to be looking at SS amps that can develop at least 500W in bridged mode, or at least 300W per side in parallel mode. Bear in mind that most SS amp manufacturers rate their power going into 8 ohms, so if your cabs are wired for 16 ohms then the effective wattage will be less.

As you've already heard, on this this thread and other places, there are a number of forum members who've used SS power amps with full-stack rigs (2 x 4 x 12) with good success.
 
xrist04 said:
First. if you're planning to drive both of your cabs with a single (2-ch) power amp, then you might consider rewiring one of your cabs to match the impedance of the other. Either have both cabs at 16 ohms, or both cabs at 8 ohms - this will help level the playing field and prevent one cab from being markedly louder than the other.

Second, consider using the "5 times the power" rule, for matching SS amps to tube amps. If you normally drive both cabs with a single 100W tube head, you'll want to be looking at SS amps that can develop at least 500W in bridged mode, or at least 300W per side in parallel mode. Bear in mind that most SS amp manufacturers rate their power going into 8 ohms, so if your cabs are wired for 16 ohms then the effective wattage will be less.

As you've already heard, on this this thread and other places, there are a number of forum members who've used SS power amps with full-stack rigs (2 x 4 x 12) with good success.
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Thanks for the info! Well, i guess then i'm looking at something that should be about 500 watts a side since i was using (2) 100 watt tube heads originally. Are there any models or companies that are better then others i should consider? It would be nice to have something with some sort of tonal control aspect to it like "depth" or "presence" or whatever so i can EQ a stage/room a little bit without messing with my patches and still have the signal if i go to FOH be untouched.

And I'd pay more for something performed or sounded better, it seems silly to buy a $2000 piece of modeling gear and then amputate it by skimping on the power.
 
IIIMK said:
With SS power amps is is better to have too much power amp and throttle it back a little to protect your speakers then not enough and risk it clipping which is opposite of tube amps where most same people prefer it the other way around (tubes clipping sound sweet to many ears ss not so much)
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Roger that!

Besides sounding nasty, a SS power amp driven into clipping can KILL speakers quickly - and most of that is the direct result of using an underpowered power amp.

Clean headroom is the rule to live by with SS power amps.

My take if you're looking to push two 4x12 cabs into sonic bliss and make some thunder:

300 watts per side minimum, >500 watts per side is the gravy and will provide some safe headroom. Just don't dime out your rig. :D
 
rsf1977 said:
xrist04 said:
First. if you're planning to drive both of your cabs with a single (2-ch) power amp, then you might consider rewiring one of your cabs to match the impedance of the other. Either have both cabs at 16 ohms, or both cabs at 8 ohms - this will help level the playing field and prevent one cab from being markedly louder than the other.

Second, consider using the "5 times the power" rule, for matching SS amps to tube amps. If you normally drive both cabs with a single 100W tube head, you'll want to be looking at SS amps that can develop at least 500W in bridged mode, or at least 300W per side in parallel mode. Bear in mind that most SS amp manufacturers rate their power going into 8 ohms, so if your cabs are wired for 16 ohms then the effective wattage will be less.

As you've already heard, on this this thread and other places, there are a number of forum members who've used SS power amps with full-stack rigs (2 x 4 x 12) with good success.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info! Well, i guess then i'm looking at something that should be about 500 watts a side since i was using (2) 100 watt tube heads originally. Are there any models or companies that are better then others i should consider? It would be nice to have something with some sort of tonal control aspect to it like "depth" or "presence" or whatever so i can EQ a stage/room a little bit without messing with my patches and still have the signal if i go to FOH be untouched.

And I'd pay more for something performed or sounded better, it seems silly to buy a $2000 piece of modeling gear and then amputate it by skimping on the power.
Click to expand...


I'm not to sure if I would work with an amp that has built in eq's or tone controls (aside from the VHT) as you would be adding color and fighting your settings in the Axe. I would look at a real nice Power amp that is as transparent as possable this way you can shape your tone from gig to gig with the Axe by using the separate global EQ's. You can also setup output 1 (XLR) for FOH and output 2 (1/4") for your amp and cab's.

Also you don't necessarily amputate the Axe buy using less power it has more to do with the quality of the power you use. I don't play with blistering 130 db stage levels anymore :lol: . I still have my 100 watt head and I can get it louder then the ART but at that point it is so loud it really hurts the ears.

As to Quality amps there are quite a few the ones that come to mind are Crest Audio, QSC, Crown, and I'm sure there are a few others if you want quality but price wise your almost in VHT 2/50/2 territory. If your on a budget then go for the Carvin DCM series but I would look at the DCM 2000, according to Carvin for some reason they recomend their amps be run at 50% on the masters in order to maintain head room.
 
so out of the Crest Audio, QSC, Crown world of power amps do any sound any better then others or is it just more features or power equals more money? I dont know much about Solidstate gear?
 
rsf1977 said:
so out of the Crest Audio, QSC, Crown world of power amps do any sound any better then others or is it just more features or power equals more money? I dont know much about Solidstate gear?
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Well quailty comes to mind and you have IMHO put then in the order I would have as to which one's I would buy if budget was not an issue. As to sound I would belive them to be as transparent as possable which is what you want.

Do a little research on the three and see what you come up with. I do know that Crest Audio is one of the best especally when you get into their upper end amps specifically the Pro series and they aint cheep. I think the pro7200 is around $1,300 or so but will give you the wattage your looking for and them some and will do it for days on end.

They also feature Automatic Clip Limiting (ACL) to protect connected spaekers a nice bonus. IGM (Impedance Sensing) to accommodate varying impedance outputs which might deal with your different Ohm cabs you have, although I'm not sure on that so I would check to make sure. The weight on this amp isn't bad eather @ just under 25 Lbs it's only 6 Lbs heaver then the ART SLA2 but it's also roughly 5 times the cost.
 
Sixstring said:
rsf1977 said:
so out of the Crest Audio, QSC, Crown world of power amps do any sound any better then others or is it just more features or power equals more money? I dont know much about Solidstate gear?
Click to expand...


Well quailty comes to mind and you have IMHO put then in the order I would have as to which one's I would buy if budget was not an issue. As to sound I would belive them to be as transparent as possable which is what you want.

Do a little research on the three and see what you come up with. I do know that Crest Audio is one of the best especally when you get into their upper end amps specifically the Pro series and they aint cheep. I think the pro7200 is around $1,300 or so but will give you the wattage your looking for and them some and will do it for days on end.

They also feature Automatic Clip Limiting (ACL) to protect connected spaekers a nice bonus. IGM (Impedance Sensing) to accommodate varying impedance outputs which might deal with your different Ohm cabs you have, although I'm not sure on that so I would check to make sure. The weight on this amp isn't bad eather @ just under 25 Lbs it's only 6 Lbs heaver then the ART SLA2 but it's also roughly 5 times the cost.
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Hey thanks I appreciate the info!
 
rsf1977 said:
Ok so I have been looking at:

QSC GX5: http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/gx/gx.htm
and
QSC RMX 2450 http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/rmx/rmx.htm

but the y don't seem to mention 16ohm loads anywhere? Are they same to use with 16ohm loads? And has anyone used the QSC RMX 2450, any thoughts on that unit?
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With SS amps, it's generally okay to drive a higher-impedance load (16 ohms), even if the manufacturer's power ratings are given at lower impedances (8 ohms). It's unlikely that you'd damage a SS power amp by driving a 16-ohm cab with it.

However you should be aware that driving a 16-ohm load will result in the amp delivering less power (watts) than it would into an 8-ohm load. This is because of good ole Ohm's Law, which states that Power = Voltage^2 / Resistance. If you raise the impedance (which is proportional to resistance at a given frequency), then you will be lowering the resulting power.

This means that, other things being equal, a 16-ohm cab might not be as loud as an 8-ohm cab. However, you can always conquer this with more power! :twisted:
 
rsf1977 said:
Sixstring said:
Out of thoes two the GX5 would be the choice.
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hey just curious why you'd take the GX5, because i don't really know which is better at all lol.
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To answer the first part of your question Given your cab issues should you run two 16 Ohm cabs it has a little more power and the obvious other benny is it weighs less than the RMX series.

To comment on the 2nd part of your question, It's not so much a question of which is better but which is better for your application. The RMX uses Toroidal transformers (why it's so heavy), reason for this in a nut shell is for better power delivery between high level transients - think of a fast hard hitting double kick drum. I don't know if you really need that for the Axe. On the other hand with the tunings that you use it might not be such a bad idea, heavy fast palm muting comes to mind but not sure if it's worth the extra 14.5 Lbs over the GX5.
 
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