Reamping slightly out of sync

[Rekster]

I'm experimenting with reamping some guitar tracks on a song I recorded a while back. I made sure to record dry at the same time so that I'd be able to do this. My issue is that the reamped tracks seem just slightly out of sync with the rest of the song. Extremely close, but just off enough to not sound right. Any suggestions? This song was originally recorded at 44.1kHz, is there any chance reamping will cause this issue due to the AF3 being 48kHz? Does that make any sense? Just trying to understand what's going on here... Thanks all.

 

[GlennO]

This has come up many times on the forum. Basically, you need to set the latency compensation preference in your DAW to compensate for this.

 

[mr_fender]

Yeah, this ↑.

The actual latency does not always exactly match the audio driver's reported latency so automatic latency compensation can sometimes end up a tiny bit off. Most DAWs have a manual adjustment somewhere in the preferences that lets you fine tune it as needed.

 

[AJ Vargas]

This has come up many times on the forum. Basically, you need to set the latency compensation preference in your DAW to compensate for this.

+1

There's a "You merely adopted the latency..." meme from The Dark Knight Rises lurking somewhere.

 

[Rekster]

Thanks all, I use Logic Pro X.

I'm assuming it's on this screen - if so, which setting would I have to adjust? Also, once I make a change I'm assuming I'll have to reamp all over again?

 

[vangrieg]

Devices - Recording delay.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207527

 

[Rekster]

Devices - Recording delay.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207527

Thanks. I wasn't sure what to set it to so I did a few tests by zooming into the waveform.

The top track is the original.
The second is reamping with recording delay set to 0.
The third is reamping with recording delay set to -1063 samples.
The fourth is reamping with recording delay set to -2015 samples.

You can quite clearly see the difference, and you can see how when I left it at the default of 0 that there's a delay when compared to the original.

Is this normal to have to fiddle around with this? It seems like a really bizarre thing to have to do.

Also, a moderator can feel free to move this over to 'DAWs and Recording' if that makes more sense at this point.

 

[vangrieg]

Is this normal to have to fiddle around with this? It seems like a really bizarre thing to have to do.

Yes, it is normal.

I don't see it as bizarre, especially on a Mac.

 

[GlennO]

Is this normal to have to fiddle around with this? It seems like a really bizarre thing to have to do.

No, it's not normal. Most audio interfaces do not require this adjustment. However, for reasons that are not clear, it is required with Fractal Audio devices. You'll only have to do this once though, so it's not that big of a headache.

 

[strabes]

Is this normal to have to fiddle around with this?

Not on most interfaces. Most interfaces correctly report their latency to the DAW, so the DAW can automatically compensate. Most other hardware modelers do this correctly, but for some reason the AX3 does not. In Logic Pro, you can use the Utilities > I/O plugin to test the latency. Set the output to 7+8 if you're using the IN USB block for reamping, set it to 5+6 if you're setting input 1 source to USB for reamping. Set the input to 1+2. Then click Ping. It should report back the latency with a positive number of samples. Enter the opposite of this number (i.e. a negative value) in the box you screenshotted. It's a small annoyance with Fractal gear, I have to do this every time I start recording with USB.

 

[RevDrucifer]

No, it's not normal. Most audio interfaces do not require this adjustment. However, for reasons that are not clear, it is required with Fractal Audio devices. You'll only have to do this once though, so it's not that big of a headache.

Funnily enough, I had to do it with two Scarlett Solo's and some Behringer interface my dad bought, but when I first plugged in my III, it was good to go. It wasn't until I upgraded to an iMac that I had to adjust the recording delay.

 

[AJ Vargas]

Yes, it is normal.

I don't see it as bizarre, especially on a Mac.

As you can see from this thread (from no one other than Matt Picone, there's something going on between the Axe and Apple/Logic Pro that causes recording latency (not to be confused with playback latency, i.e. hearing your live playing out of time) that YOU HAVE to manually set the recording delay (I/O Utility plugin is your best friend, tho).

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/logic-pro-recording-delay-setting.157412/

IME as posted in similar threads on the subject is that I've found less recording latency via S/PDIF into my 3rd gen Scarlett than the Axe's USB, which to this day seems really odd and nothing has evolved since.

 

[Rekster]

Not on most interfaces. Most interfaces correctly report their latency to the DAW, so the DAW can automatically compensate. Most other hardware modelers do this correctly, but for some reason the AX3 does not. In Logic Pro, you can use the Utilities > I/O plugin to test the latency. Set the output to 7+8 if you're using the IN USB block for reamping, set it to 5+6 if you're setting input 1 source to USB for reamping. Set the input to 1+2. Then click Ping. It should report back the latency with a positive number of samples. Enter the opposite of this number (i.e. a negative value) in the box you screenshotted. It's a small annoyance with Fractal gear, I have to do this every time I start recording with USB.

This is amazing, thanks so much for this info. I also discovered a secondary issue which is completely on me. All my tracks were adding a 'default patch' which included a few unused bus sends, the dry track also had these bus sends attached which I'm sure only exacerbated the delay. Does that make sense? In any case, I removed all these sends and ran a ping test which provided a result of 543 so I set the recording delay to -543 samples (Which means the delay is far less drastic than what I originally had at around 2000). Recorded again and things are much tighter now.

I've learned a lot here and can't say enough about how amazing this community is. All your input and advice is beyond appreciated. It's saved me a lot of frustrations here. Thank you.

 

[Rekster]

One last question, should I be keeping the recording delay set for both tracking as well as reamping?

 

[GlennO]

One last question, should I be keeping the recording delay set for both tracking as well as reamping?

Yes, just leave it in place for all your AxeFX recording.

 

[Rekster]

Yes, just leave it in place for all your AxeFX recording.

That probably explains why all the tracking I’ve done for the last few months has felt microseconds off. It was all probably related to this issue. It was so close, but never perfect so I was questioning my playing and my ears. Oh boy… well now I know at least! Thanks again.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

Of course there will be some latency. I’d like to know which devices introduce zero latency for reamping. I’m sure Cliff would love to get his hands on those processors.
You’re sending a clean signal into a modeler, crunching numbers and shooting it back into the daw to record the result. This takes TIME, in a measurement of samples or ms. That time is the latency. The simple way I’d fix this is zoom in on the initial transient from the clean track and drag the reamped tracks back to that. Done.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

Yes, just leave it in place for all your AxeFX recording.

Does the axefxIII have a DAW mode with a fixed latency? Wouldn’t introducing more or less amp and fx blocks change the latency number?

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

One last question, should I be keeping the recording delay set for both tracking as well as reamping?

In your DAW? No. You’ll be essentially doubling the amount of latency introduced by the fractal. Unless I’m missing something here……..the fractal has a latency to do it’s magic. Probably to the tune of 100 samples or so at 48k but I’m guessing. Can’t be much more than that if it is. When you create a latency offset in your daw for that track, the daw will essentially slow everything else down by that amount so it all lines up perfectly. What you’d need to line everything up live is a plugin or a feature in either the axeFX or your DAW that introduces negative time, which luckily doesn’t exist yet.

Edit: unless you mean already recorded tracks and you’re now recording more tracks. In this case, my answer is still no, but then your recorded tracks will sound out of sync. This is why I favor nudging whatever number of samples the tracks are late by. They’ll now always be in sync and won’t slow your session down. And this is all provided you’re not direct monitoring (a feature I’m not sure is available on the fractal). That would also change things.

 

[Rekster]

I think I found the magic number. Because all my original tracks were done without adjusting for latency they were likely always off by the 543 samples that the latency test reported. Now that I'm reamping it will be off by an additional 543. So I doubled my recording delay to -1086 and reamped once again (compensating for both the original offset as well as the new one being generated by reamping. Seems to be working well, my tracks sound very tight with the drums now.

This has been so enlightening. Now to go back and reamp everything I've worked on for the last while... And any new projects I'll make sure to set to -543 from the start. I'm just glad to know I wasn't losing my ability to play tight rhythm!