Real vintage sounding les paul through FM3

Eman7422

Inspired
Can someone who has a real vintage les paul make a video capturing that tone via FM3 and document settings, or post a link to that tone, and or make some suggestions as to how to capture, catch that vide?
 
What aspect of a vintage guitar do you want to capture with a modeler? A modeler is about the amp and cabinet that someone played a guitar through, not the guitar itself.
 
I would like to hear what the FM3 sounds like with a true 1959 les paul.

I don’t think I’ve seen a video like that.

alway a 59 through a real amp or the FM3 with a more modern guitar.

I assume the FM3 can capture that vintage vibe, but I’d love to hear it since I don’t have a guitar like that.
 
Yes, like all I’ve seen, lots of gain, it’s a nice video and I’ve seen it already, tasty playing.

really want too all pickup positions with a bluesy vibe and very vintage like the video where Bonamassa demonstrates the various tones you can get from a less paul.
 
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Yes, like all I’ve seen, lots of gain, it’s a nice video and I’ve seen, tasty playing.

really want too all pickup positions with a bluesy vibe and very vintage like the video where Bonamassa demonstrates the various tones you can get from a less paul.

FWIW, that particular video was a super-limited Les Paul but not a vintage one (it was a Collector's Choice).

I don't have extensive experience with vintage guitars, but I have played some 50s and 60s Les Pauls and Juniors. To me, the sound isn't all that different. They do feel different, and it's very hard to get over the whole "This is a 50s Les Paul" thing. The '52 I played was the best P-90 sound I've ever gotten...but that was because somehow it wasn't that noisy (I played it into a DSL40 with the classic channel dimed). It was also one of the more challenging guitars I've played due to the wrong neck angle and crazy high action....it was kinda hard to get notes to ring out while muting adjacent strings high up on the neck.

All of those techniques work with a modern Les Paul. To my ears...the big difference--even comparing to normal Gibson USA, not CS--is just that modern Les Pauls are noisier (which is because they ground lug 3 on the tone pot, rather than the wiper) and that non-CS modern LPs come with potted pickups....which causes a very subtle difference, especially with a lot of room volume.
 
I’ll post this video. It’s definitely not a 59’ and probably isn’t what you’re wanting. I’m bit confused what it is you want to achieve by the request other than its face value. To me when talking about Bonomassa IMO his sound is much more about the amps he uses and how he uses them than the guitar. His is the classic pushing a non master volume amp to its full limit. LOUD! So the power amp is playing a big role.
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I forgot to say that the playing starts at about 2:30 mark. The beginning is worth watching to understand why he is making the video.



Here’s a recent short talk with Bonomassa talking about a recent big gig and there’s a part where he makes a comment how all the amps had to be set far away due to volume issues.

 
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I guess the question becomes for recording via FM3, can you cop those vintage non master tones, with a vintage guitar LP and then can I set up a non vintage LP to get those tones, again without the ability to own one through the FM3 or is it really impossible without a “real” amp. Best I can explain what I am seeking.
 
Make sure you are using a Headrush 108 to monitor it all.
Shooting Star GIF
 
I guess the question becomes for recording via FM3, can you cop those vintage non master tones, with a vintage guitar LP and then can I set up a non vintage LP to get those tones, again without the ability to own one through the FM3 or is it really impossible without a “real” amp. Best I can explain what I am seeking.
I think I get what you’re talking about now, but it will probably get into that “can you get the same sound, feel, etc. from a modeler than a cranked tube amp in a space” territory. Which will probably go off the rails. It gets more interesting when bringing in recording. Since I don’t have much experience with true vintage guitars and only 2 1/2 years with the FM3 (modeling) I should slowly back away.🥴

I would imagine (besides using the right amp model and finding that pushed tone) finding the right IR (cab) would play a big role with recording.
 
I guess the question becomes for recording via FM3, can you cop those vintage non master tones, with a vintage guitar LP and then can I set up a non vintage LP to get those tones, again without the ability to own one through the FM3 or is it really impossible without a “real” amp. Best I can explain what I am seeking.

Do you actually have a '59 Les Paul? If so congrats. If not...I suggest removal of the vintage fetish aspect of things and focus 100% on the sound. Tonally, what exactly is it doing that you feel you can't get with whatever it is you're playing?
 
I should add that I’m not someone that completely poo poo’s the idea that as a fine guitar with woods that have lots of oils and resins in them (mahogany, rosewood) age they become more resonant, open and “woody” sounding. I have heard it more than a few times. I have a 22 year old PRS McCarty and have owned it the whole time and it has become better with age. I do believe as those resins crystallize it is a beneficial thing, tone wise. However I wouldn’t pay $150,000 for it.

One other thing and this is something I have not even begun to experiment with, that would be putting the FM3 into the power section of one of my tube amps and playing through guitar speakers and cabinet instead of FRFR. I just have been adverse because the reason I got the FM3 was to eliminate all that and model the power amp, but this may be the key to getting a more vintage (traditional) guitar tone.
 
I guess the question becomes for recording via FM3, can you cop those vintage non master tones, with a vintage guitar LP and then can I set up a non vintage LP to get those tones, again without the ability to own one through the FM3 or is it really impossible without a “real” amp. Best I can explain what I am seeking.

Yes, you can set up a non-vintage guitar to sound "the same"(tm). There are some differences, but IMHO they boil down to things like manufacturing tolerances and how the guitar (and its electronics) have aged. Seymour Duncan have taken apart a good number of vintage PAFs, and the Seth Lovers (and a handful of others) are wound on a winder that they bought from the Kalamazoo factory. IMO, they're as close as you're going to get. There are a handful of reproduction tone caps and pots that cop how the knobs work extremely well.

I'll reiterate that in the Bonamassa video you referenced, he's playing a modern production Gibson CS into a Lazy J amp, which didn't exist in the 50s. He's also referenced, in other videos, that you can do the same kinds of things with other modern guitars, and specifically referenced Epiphones. He's a collector. He has the old stuff because he likes it, is successful, and doesn't really care about spending money on much else. There are reasons Epiphones will sound different, but the differences won't stop you from making them sound great.

that video, for reference:



The other thing about the sound in that video is that...you can't see any microphones. I'm not sure exactly how they did it, but they recorded the room sound, not the direct sound. A modeler is going to be a bit different from that unless you run it into a guitar cab and turn it up in a really big, bright, reverberant room. That reverb sound...is the room. The amp doesn't have reverb unless I'm very mistaken.

As far as the experience of playing....it's probably going to be different. JB's Twins (he's touring with the modern Fender reproductions now) can get up toward 110dB clean. His Dumbles and Silver Jubilees are all master volume amps....played crazy loud.

His old tech said that one day he measured 129dB behind the shields. JB said in a rig rundown that without the shields, it'd be too loud for anybody, including him. No, I don't know why he uses pairs of most of his amps.

Anyway....at those volumes, I'd bet almost no one can tell the difference. It's just too damn loud to hear detail as far as I'm concerned.

But....can you get a similar playing experience at more reasonable volumes, other than the experience of being near an amp that loud? Yes.

I love the High Power Tweed Twin model in the fractal to the point that I barely use other amps...I just change the SIC and IRs to get different sounds. Turn it way up, use the guitar controls, and it just "does the thing". It's a little weird to use because it's naturally so dark (I run the bass knob off or below 1, mids and treble up, presence usually up...it's an odd way to set an amp). But, it's a great amp model, easily up there with the Tucana for me, both of which are better to my ears than the Dumble models. When you get the monitoring figured out, IMHO, it's a better experience than I've had with the old amps I've played (which are, coincidentally, all Marshalls).
 
I would like to hear what the FM3 sounds like with a true 1959 les paul.

I don’t think I’ve seen a video like that.

alway a 59 through a real amp or the FM3 with a more modern guitar.

I assume the FM3 can capture that vintage vibe, but I’d love to hear it since I don’t have a guitar like that.
I wouldn't worry about it.

I've been fortunate enough to play three different '59s back in the day, when I worked in a vintage guitar store. One of those is now the "Rosanna Burst," owned by Steve Lukather and featured on "Rosanna" (including the video). It's a excellent guitar - stellar sound and playability. But it's not particularly beautiful in terms of outrageous flame or color. Of the other two bursts, one had gorgeous flame, the other was OK - but both of them were just so-so in terms of playability and sound.

If you're listening to good players playing reasonably decent guitars through an FM3, you're hearing its capabilities. Remember that tones you have heard from Bursts on records have been through an endless signal chain that involved all sorts of solid state electronics as well as tube amps - or even direct in to a board (Zep's Black Dog, for example). There's an endless array of potential available with the Fractal products. Get one and make some music with it, for yourself or for others.
 
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