Re-amping plans

Speculum Speculorum

Speculum Speculorum

Power User
Hey guys,

So after a bit of experimentation yesterday, I'm going to give re-amping a shot. I have been trying to build a bass preset that takes care of all my recording needs (kind of like a one-off), but it's just not working when it comes down to mixing. Basically, I don't have enough control over how the lows/mids/grit blend together in the context of a mix, and the problem is only worsened when I start blending IRs to make that happen. I tried going DI and then working with various plugins to blend all the signals together, but it gets a bit silly (and comes out rather poorly) to try and use some generic overdrive and EQ the crap out of things in Logic when I have the high-quality drives, amps, RW IRs available to me through the Axe-fx II. My idea, then, is to re-amp a dry signal to 3 different presets that suit these needs and can be edited more appropriately in the mix - One for lows, one for grit, and one that's more like an amp in a room. Re-amping will, of course, also have the benefit of helping me mix the guitars better, but this is what kind of got me started.

I don't use my Axe-fx as my sound card as it's not convenient for my other workflows, so re-amping through USB is not that great an option. I've been reading all morning, researching. I'm using a Focusrite Saffire Pro 14, which has S/PIDF, and here's what I was thinking:

1. Record both a wet track and a dry track via USB
2. Switch the main input/output of the Axe-II to S/PDIF
3. Set dry track output to S/PIDF within Logic
4. Set up track with S/PIDF input within Logic
5. Smile with tonal bliss.

I've been doing lots of research on various methods out there, and this seems to be the most convenient for me. It would be great if I could just record via S/PIDF and get a wet and dry track at the same time, but it seems to me that the signal cannot be split this way, correct? It's either sending out a wet or dry signal. The other method I've seen is to set up analog and S/PIDF output simultaneously and recording the dry track through S/PIDF, but that seems to get pretty ugly with latency and routing boondoggles. Am I missing anything here, guys? Am I making this more complicated than it has to be?
 
Here's what I do:
USB for AxeEdit and midi ONLY
Guitar > FF400 > DAW > FF400 -spdif-> AxeFXII -spdif->FF400 > DAW

So the AD converter used is the FF400. This allows me to use the FF400 as the main interface with my DAW. I record the dry guitar to one track directly from the FF400. At the same time, I record a stereo wet track coming back from the AxeFXII for reference purposes. At any time, I can reamp by playing back the dry track through a different preset on the Axe and recording the stereo wet result.

This works great. I did fairly extensive testing to compare the AD on my FF400 and the front/rear AD on the AxeFX. I concluded that I couldn't tell the difference and opted to use FF400 specifically b/c I wanted to reamp. One downside to doing this is that you will incur some latency. I turn the buffer as far down as I can without getting crackles so that it's minimal. I find that if I play in headphones directly to the axe and then immediately switch to my setup above, the latency definitely bothers me. But if I start by using the setup above, I don't even think about it. It's more of a mental conditioning issue.

You have spdif so you should be able to do the same as long as the AD on that box is good enough and as long as it can handle low buffers.
 
I will give this a shot for sure. I really don't want to have to deal with any audible latency, so I'll just have to see how it pans out. I'm kind of a sensitive little bastard when it comes to stuff like that. Considering you're using a pretty damn nice interface and you're getting some latency, I'm guessing it may rear it's ugly head with mine. I don't really mind a bit of a change in my workflow to accomodate re-amping though, so if it's not functioning to the standards I need, I'll just go with my previous idea. Thanks so much for the response dude!
 
My thought was excactly as yours, to hook up SPDIF for reamping through my soundcard. But I also discovered I can't record dry and wet at once. So I tried to go all USB, and it works great, no audible latency. I have a fairly new PC though, so I can have the buffer settings really low, which is essential for USB...
Have you tried to use all USB, and why do you mean it's not an option for you?
 
I'm using the Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 for my interface, AxeFX II solely for AxeEDIT only. Saffire running at 512 samples and here's my configuration:
Guitar => AxeFX II (Instrument In) -> Analog Out from Axe into Saffire Pro 40 (Wet track)
-> SPDIF Out from Axe into Saffire Pro 40 (Dry Track)
Reamping:
DAW Dry Track output to output 3 of Saffire-> Analog in 1 of AxeFX II using balanced cables.

All I've got to do whenever i want to reamp is to just switch the input in AxeFX input 1 to REAR and thats it. No Latency when monitoring the wet signal from the axefx at all. The signal from the SPDIF out is clean from all noise etc and works great.
 
xfigox - that seems like it's working pretty well for you. I am assuming here that the Axe-fx will automatically spit a dry signal out of the S/PIDF line until I switch the main input to S/PIDF in the I/O menu - correct? I will be working on this today, so I'll likely be figuring it out soon enough. :lol

And ztevie, the reason I don't want to use the USB is many-fold. One, I get some occasional pops and clicks on my Mac that ruin recordings even with everything set up right. The other reason is that in order to monitor re-amping via USB, one has to use the Axe-II as a sound card - I can't monitor through my Saffire while I am re-amping the signal. Everything is routed through my soundcard - my mic preamp, my monitors, my old MIDI keyboard (yeah, it's not even USB but it works wonderfully) - I wouldn't have any access to those while I was re-amping. It's an interruption to my workflow that I don't really want to tackle.

But seriously, guys, thanks for all the answers. I'm looking forward to getting this going today. Picked up some S/PDIF cables while out shopping last night and I've got the whole day to get crackin'. I'll let you know how it goes!
 
In your AxeFX front panel I/O menu, you have to select "Input" under USB/DIGI OUT SOURCE. That way you will be getting the dry signal from axefx into the saffire. My main input source is kept at Analog (IN 1) all the time as I am using balanced cables from the saffire back into the rear input of the AxeFX instead of SPDIF again.
 
Ah, okay. Unfortunately, that means I'll have to get balanced XLR to 1/4" cables before I can be sure I'm not getting any noise - which I currently do not have. Sad face. Just a question - you don't feel that you lose any audio quality going to the analog outs? I've heard others whine a little bit, so I'm just curious what your mileage has been. I know for sure that S/PIDF is as clean as USB, so I will also give this a shot. Thanks again, man! Big help!
 
I haven't really compared the difference between SPDIF and Analog but it seems fine to me. I've previously used TS cables from the saffire back into the axefx without much success (lots of weird interference from surroundings) but using balanced cables really helped remove all the interference i was experiencing.
 
Anytime I've used analog with the dry signal its just too much noise. SPDIF works really well as does USB for me with a Saffire 24ProDSP. I haven't had a lot of time to mess with re-amping lately, but there are many permutations you can try between using analog, digital and USB all with advantages and obvious disadvantages. The biggest issue I've run into so far has been offsets and drift when mixing USB and other audio interfaces. I've been using ASIO4All in order to use multiple audio devices simultaneously and its pretty solid with low latency, but the drift is all over the place with no way to calculate it or compensate reliably by using delay offset; i.e., its different every time I re-amp.

Of course I'm on a Win7 box so using 'aggregate devices' is kind of flaky and a bit of a hack with ASIO4All.
 
I've managed to work out the whole analog reamping thing. It sounds really nice, actually. Not so much noise, really. On some amps, the amp hum does come through a little strong. Not so much on others. It seems more like the character of the amp being modeled. At any rate, my bass guitar is starting to really take shape and it took me about 10 minutes to dial in a bass sound just switching out some IR's on the bass and changing the cut-offs on both ends. I put a bit of hair on a signal, and suddenly I'm swinging a big modern rock bass sound in no time. I can only imagine how this will go when I actually dig in and start experimenting.

I'm diggin' this. Big time. :ugeek
 
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